question re childcare vouchers whilst on mat leave

[driedapricots]

hi
i've seen on other threads the fab loophole that means if you are receiving childcare vouchers thru your company when you go on mat leave then the company must continue to pay these when you're on SMP (they can't take it from your SMP)...however, i have a question. my co is v small (no HR and outsourced payroll) and i doubt they are aware of this at all. should i mention it to them now before i go on mat leave or should i play ignorant but pull them up on it when they stop paying (as i am pretty sure they will).. i don't want to disrupt my dd1's nursery arrangements at all and I just know it's going to be one of those issues....

[seeyoukay]

I'd mention it now. Don't mention it and then effectively force them to give you money when they didn't budget for it and expect a pretty frosty reception on return.

As always read your contract they may take it from any pay you receive when you get back. They can't take it from SMP but could if you return.

Depends how small as well. They could decide just to close the childcare voucher scheme if you do this.

[driedapricots]

good points. i don't want to screw them over, just want what i'm entitled to and more than anything be clear about my income for the next few months.

my contract doesn't say anything about it (it's prob not worth the paper it's written on as has not been renewed since i changed to PT hours) i do have to sign a maternity policy form so will see what it says on there

are they legally allowed to take it from my normal pay when i return then?

it's v small..only me who takes the childcare voucher scheme!

[hannahsaunt]

Really? Can you point me to the info? Would fab if true as I'm about to go onto SMP. Does it work even if you have enhanced mat benefits for the first period of weeks?

[driedapricots]

links here
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/employment_issues/972925-Anyone-about-to-go-on-maternity-leave-and-currently-us ing

and then on this link there's a link thru to another one that really explains it

seems a bit too good to be true!

from what i understand your employer is only liable to pay it once your SMP kicks in

[seeyoukay]

I'd mention it. If its just you on the childcare scheme they've already done a favour for you by setting it up.

As its just you they could just cancel it as unless its part of your contract and a benefit if they stopped it for everyone in the company (i.e. just you) and decided to end the scheme you'd lose out.

[kslatts]

They can't deduct it from your pay when you return. Because it is processed through the salary sacrifice scheme, it is not a deduction from your salary but a benefit in return for you agreeing to reduce your salary by the amount of your vouchers.

They have to pay it while you are receiving SMP, although it may not be detailed in your contract it would be difficult for your employer to stop the scheme because of the agreement that has been signed.

[flowerybeanbag]

They are not allowed to take it from your pay when you return, no, as kslatts says, so don't worry about that.

hannahsaunt they can continue to deduct the amount from enhanced maternity pay, but can't from SMP.

[driedapricots]

hi
i had a brief chat with payroll lady today and she said the childcare voucher scheme is not a contractual benefit - which it's not in so far as i have never signed anything - i simply asked them to set it up for me and they did. this is a very small and disorganised company and as i say i only have an original contract from when i joined years ago - which is totally out of date now as they have since increased my pay/changed hours/removed certain benefits when credit crunch hit...so in essence i don't think i have a contract to cover me and they could just say no we're stopping that now...and i don't want to get into a battle with them, but equally i think that's a bit unfair as my enhanced maternity pay will be worked out on my salary with the deduction... can anyone help suggest how far i can take this? thanks

[hannahsaunt]

Hoorah!!!

[flowerybeanbag]

Payroll lady doesn't get to decide whether benefits are contractual or not, and whether your benefits are written on a bit of paper isn't hugely relevant, particularly when your contract is so wildly out of date anyway.

If employers could get away with ditching all benefits for employees on maternity leave by not putting them in the contract in the first place they would do that.

Your vouchers are a contractual benefit, just as the reduced salary you are now receiving because you get the vouchers is also contractual, and just as the holiday entitlement you are receiving now is contractual even though it was different in your original contract. You are entitled to the benefits you are currently receiving, including childcare vouchers.

If they stop the scheme now because you are pregnant and they want to avoid paying you vouchers when you are on maternity leave, that would be discrimination.

As you say, you will get less maternity pay because you are receiving the vouchers and have sacrificed some of your salary, and the quid pro quo for you is that you continue to receive your vouchers.

You could speak to your manager (not payroll person) and say that you are concerned the payroll person may stop your vouchers during your maternity leave. Say you've double-checked and you are entitled to continue receiving them along with all your other benefits so would appreciate him/her just making sure that does happen.

[driedapricots]

thanks for that msg flowery i am starting to feel i should back down as it's 'morally' wrong to expect my very small company to pay up..but the way you've framed it makes it only what i'm entitled to. the problem is the person i will have to have the battle with is my boss, the owner of the company..and she's so tight!(small business - every penny that she doesn't have to pay her staff go towards her own kids education etc etc)so it's quite a personal conversation and no intermediate 'manager' type there. i mean how far can i argue the case before i have to either give in/take the next step..which i really don't want to do as will probably end up losing my job altogether/or having to return to a very bad atmosphere at the very least...

[flowerybeanbag]

By driedapricots Thu 24-Jun-10 21:36:34

"it's 'morally' wrong to expect my very small company to pay up"

But by the same token isn't it 'morally wrong' to expect employees who happen to work for small businesses rather than big corporates to miss out on their entitlements?

My clients are small businesses like yours, so I very much sympathise with your boss. Having to provide all benefits throughout maternity leave is a burden. I was discussing this very issue with a small business owner yesterday, and we agreed that actually one of the key impacts this legislation has had is taking away employers' ability to plan. Employees who have no intention of going back after maternity leave are now waiting until the last minute to resign because they are now entitled to benefits including holiday pay for the whole year.

But the bottom line is those are your entitlements. You are entitled to your benefits during maternity leave, and although you probably feel guilty, you shouldn't.

I would work on the basis that you won't have to have a battle. Think of the vouchers as one of several benefits you receive. Don't think of it as any different or behave although there's any doubt that you will get them. Just as you will get holiday, pension contributions if you get them, and all other benefits you normally get, so you will get the vouchers as well.

I'd still approach your boss in the way I mentioned earlier. Say that after a conversation with Payroll Lady you are concerned she (Payroll Lady) may take it upon herself to stop your childcare vouchers. Say that you are of course sure that Mrs Boss is fully aware that you continue to get all your normal benefits during maternity leave, but would appreciate it if she could just make sure Payroll Lady knows that.

It's a little bit passive-aggressive but I think you shouldn't mention it apologetically or in any way as though you are asking her for the vouchers, as if she's doing you a favour.

[driedapricots]

thanks so much flowery - i really appreciate your advice and will approach as you say on monday. will let you know how i get on!

[driedapricots]

Flowery - i have just had this response back via my boss - it's completely wrong isn't it???!!

Childcare vouchers impact on SMP in two ways:

Firstly when the initial calculation of average weekly pay is made, in order to determine the amount of SMP due in the first 6 weeks of Maternity leave, the gross pay used is the actual gross after deduction of childcare vouchers.

Secondly, if the employee wishes to continue receiving childcare vouchers after her maternity leave started, this will require deduction of the value of the vouchers from the employee?s salary as per normal.

In other words, the vouchers are treated in the same way as any other deductions from gross pay. There is no special treatment for them, childcare vouchers will be deducted from SMP.

[RibenaBerry]

No, it's not totally wrong, just a bit!

Childcare vouchers are salary sacrifice, so your SMP is calculated based on your reduced salary and not the 'full' one. This will impact on what you get during the 90% period (because you get 90% of salary - childcare vouchers, not 90% of everything).

If you continue to receive 'salary' during maternity leave, by which I presume they mean enhanced maternity pay, they can deduct the cost of the vouchers from that.

What they can't do is deduct them from SMP, so having been fairly ok throughout the email, they go very wrong at the last sentence!

[flowerybeanbag]

What Ribena said. Yes SMP is calculated based on the adjusted salary after childcare vouchers are deducted.

You don't receive 'salary' during maternity leave but if your employer pays you some kind of enhanced maternity pay, over and above SMP, the cost of the vouchers can be deducted from that portion.

Childcare vouchers absolutely cannot be deducted from SMP. You can't deduct things from SMP in the same way you can 'normal' pay.

[driedapricots]

yes, that's the bit i thought was wrong! thanks for the reassurance.