Senior manager made a flippant remark, which I believe demonstrates inherent sexual discrimination

[sameagain]

I found out yesterday that someone I used to work with is pregnant. She is late twenties, graduate, very successful and very highly thought of.

I was pleased to hear her news and called across the office "X is expecting". My Senior Manager (who only knows here by reputation) replied "blimey, I thought she was a high flier" to which I snapped "and how does having a baby change that?" He did have the good grace to blush and realise he'd said something wrong, although he didn't apologise.

I work for a large bank that employs a high proportion of women, but in the Commercial Banking arm, where I work, there are very few of us. I am the only one in an office of 15 and the same is repeated across the country. I work part-time and every manager I have worked for has made it clear they respect my ability, but hate the p-t arrangement. I only got it in the first place because I out negotiated a wimp

Anyway, I have never really though these people were sexist and I never felt discriminated against before I had DCs and the change,I thought, was because of the p-t working which, I have to admit is inconvenient at times, but I'm really angry about waht was said yesterday.

-Am I over-reacting?
-Should I do anything? I might be able to get him to say sorry or admit he was wrong, but unlikely to change his actual view and frankly this is not a time to be rocking the boat in our industry.

[WideWebWitch]

No, you're not over reacting, it's very irritating. I think there's a LOT of this and the older I get the more aware I become that my husband's experience of working is totally different to mine because he's a man. It really is.

Currently the male working model is a full time woth one and while that is the case (I'm not saying it's RIGHT, just that it is the case) I think a lot of women don't do themselves any favours by having a baby and then immediately going part time and, the implication is, taking their job much less seriously. (that's also the reality sometimes too, as many posters on mn will testify)

Please note that I'm not saying this is right, just that atm the working model is 5 days a week, ft. It is changng, very very slowly and now companies bang on about work life balance and have policies on pt working, compressed hours etc etc when this wasn't the case years ago.

The fact remains that not many men go part time after having children do they? And until that changes and the working model changes, well, attitudes will stay the same, sadly.

I don't think you should say anything because

a) although he almost certainly would discriminate against a pt worker he didn't actually say anything discriminatory - he revealed his view though about women and babies!

b) sorry but you're right, not the time to rock the boat in almost any industry.

Terrifyingly, media reports of the recession being bad for women as they're made redundant before men may well be true: sexism is alive and well and can affect us all.

[tribpot]

I think whether you say anything depends on how well you know this guy and what kind of relationship you had. If you knew him well I'd be tempted to say privately "I was surprised what you said about X, I'm sure you didn't mean any harm but ... "

You could store it up for the next time he tells you someone male's dp/dw is pregnant and reply sweetly "oh, I thought he was a high flier"

My boss once told a colleague "I really respect the fact that you never have to move work things around because of childcare" to which she replied "erm yes but that is because my dh is a SAHD". He was like: oh yeah, never thought of that. I'd obviously have his bollocks on a plate if he ever said the opposite to me, i.e. I don't respect you because you have to juggle work and childcare (and a chronically ill dh to boot) but I don't think he ever would - it was just a naive remark from someone who doesn't have kids. Ironically the colleague in question now has a major childcare problem (prompting her to remark to me: "I don't see why I can't leave dd tied up outside nursery with a bowl of water until they open" - quite) but she at least was never daft enough to think she was superwoman!

Understand your sensitivity on the subject given you feel under pressure about the p-t arrangement. Your managers may not like it but it has been agreed and that is the end of it. They'll have to get used to it sooner or later, so well done for you for pioneering the change for them!

[sameagain]

Really wicked - expressing the view that she can't be a high-flyer and pregnant/a mother isn't discriminatory?

[beanieb]

Wicked's response is spot on IMO

[naturopath]

IMO he was absolutely discriminatory - I hear a lot of comments like this where I work as well. On the one hand, not a good idea to rock the boat at a time like this, on the other hand, if you don't follow up on this now (maybe informally but keepa detailed note of everything) you won't be able to rely on it when you want to take them to the employment tribunal for sexual discrimination in another context (which, given their attitudes and the current markets, is not unlikely).

[foxinsocks]

leave it

but remember it

tbh it's hearing comments like this that spur me on .

[llareggub]

I hear this sort of thing frequently too, and irritatingly, it comes from my female colleagues. The number of times I hear them say things like "so and so is only part-time" drives me insane.

I think you've said what you need to say. I used to bite my lip and ignore the "only part-time" comments, but now I respond firmly and professionally. Usually, the person making the comment splutters and declares they didn't mean anything by it, and you know, sometimes I think they mean it.

[MrsGrahamBell]

You ARE over-reacting - get over it! I also work in a male-dominated environment but have successfully negotiated a term-time only arrangement, because I do my job well, they get that, and I don't whinge. I am by definition part-time, but everyone has forgotten that now, five years on - it is now 'normal' in our team, just part of the way we work, and so not worthy of comment. Sometimes, women really are their own and their female colleagues, worst enemies.

[llareggub]

There is a difference between over-reacting and challenging negative stereotypes of women. I think these sorts of comments do need challenging, but in a way that isn't likely to be dismissed as PC and irritating. Tongue in cheek works well.

Just because you are happy with the gender stereotypes and inherent sexist behaviour, doesn't mean the rest of us are misguided.

[MrsGrahamBell]

Fine, wallow in our outrage if you have time, and leisure to, I would rather do the day's work, go home, have fun with the DC and spend my time on more important things.

[llareggub]

I don't wallow in anything.

But I don't accept that I don't contribute 100% because I'm part-time. I more than fulfill my responsibilities, thanks. I just don't subscribe to the "if you can't beat em, join em" mentality.

[helena99]

One of the recurring comments on MN is 'pick your battles'. How stupid would you feel if you made a fuss about this and then Ms High Flier didn't return from maternity leave? If you have no control over the situation then don't get involved.

[QuintessentialShadows]

What would you say? To whom?

You have not been discriminated against, she has not been discriminated against.
All he did was express surprise she was pregnant, in a clumsy way. This may have no bearing on how he will treat a pregnant co-working professionally.
Let it go for now, but remember it.

[QuintessentialShadows]

co-worker not co-working..

[sameagain]

I have no intention of picking a fight over it and you're absolutely right women are often our own worst enemies in this situation. In fact when I first met Miss High Flyer she absolutely wrote me off and decided she didn't need to "network" with me when she found out I was "only part-time". She learned

But, helena, I'm not offended for her (not especially fond of her TBH) but for mothers generally.

He did really blush when I challenged him, so I suspect I probably won this one FTB anyway. Thanks for chatting it over with me.

[helena99]

I think that you probably did right: you challenged him at the time and no more need be said.

Isn't the arrogance of youth funny. I wonder if, over the following months of pregnancy and new-babydom, Ms High Flier will start to see you in a whole new light and find some respect.