To make a formal complaint or not...

[DoinItForTheKids]

Wrote out a full post yesterday, deleted it, but it's still on my mind. Can I run it past you guys and see what you think about what I should do? I've actually woken up with stomach pains today and am not looking forward to going in to work tomorrow.

Have worked at current place 1 yr. Over this time working a lot with one Director. It takes a while (like it does in a personal relationship) to really see who that person is. He can come across as entirely reasonable, well constructed thinking and engaging. But I see who he is now and I don't like it. It feels dangerous and risky working with/for him.

He's hugely ambitious, utterly un self-aware, convinced only he can do anything in any of the departments properly - no one is as competent as him.

In his team there are 12 staff. Last year 8 left one of whom had submitted a complaint for bullying and another one who only lasted 4 months before she felt the need to leave and move on. Then a few months ago he did 360 degree feedback - his opinions of himself were way higher scored than what every single other person thought (what a surprise not). He continues to operate in exactly the same way.

When things go smoothly, he's fine to work with. He even has a 'putting on the charm' mode which he uses when new people start etc but what people don't realise is that this is not real him and underneath the real him is waiting to emerge, you never know when really but you learn the triggers.

When there's a delay or an issue (that's life, that's what management is) his attention swivels to the person delivering that message and they are somehow then culpbable or responsible for it. When I say his attention swivels when I see this reaction in my mind's eye I'm imagining a battle tank and you see the turret with the massive gun on the top swivel round so it's pointing at you - that is what it feels like because the response you get comes from an 'attack' mindset - It's accusatory, highly challenging, totally unsupportive or collaborative - there's a problem, it's you, you've failed, and it's almost semi-threatening / punitive in the tone and delivery. I feel this is in part because he consistently over promises and is then forced to ride the team really hard, pushing pushing pushing at all times, rounding on people if there's even an entirely normal delay - because so much is riding on it - for HIM, his reputation, his persona within the organisation, his profile.

Diversity and high performing teams come about with a varied group of individuals, personalities, thinking styles etc - every one has value. I'm not defaulted to being timid or quiet, but if you have the misfortune to be a quieter, gentler, more thoughtful member of staff, watch out. You're weak, your contribution is less valuable. Upshot of this for the one colleague I'm thinking of is she's starting to struggle to actually get her words out because his outbursts and responses have an almost intimidating effect with the recipient of his criticism immediately on the back foot.

In a variety of settings he denigrates, criticises and makes derogatory comments about other parts of the business, individuals or teams and even current and former staff from his own area. I find this behaviour utterly repugnant and completely unprofessional.

So do I submit this complaint (honestly, it's been needed for some long time now and several people have considered it one of whom who decided to leave it, the one just left). After various antics in recent weeks I know I'm going to struggle to keep working with him. I used to be able to switch back to laughing and joking with him mode even after one of his pathetic outbursts but I honestly think that I can't do that any more and if I hear him badmouth just one colleague I'm just going to flat out say something and it might not be very pretty, albeit it would still be professional. I don't know which is the lesser of the two evils - pull him up on stuff there and then (he'll hate it) or submit a formal complaint? What's going to be the least potentially damaging for my day to day ongoing working day with him? I feel his ambitions recently have really gone off the charts and that I'm now firmly one of the people he would be quite ready to shove under the bus if he thought I was in any way jeopardising any one of the pieces of work he's doing. Plus, as alluded to above he's learned NOTHING from previous complaints and feedback - he doesn't change and grow, he just does the same thing the same way so in some ways, what's the point in stirring up a hornets nest if it won't actually do anything?

[Singlenotsingle]

Your problem is twofold. Firstly, everybody is scared of him including the more senior people in the company. This means that no one is going to be brave enough to want to cross him in case that gun turns on them.

Secondly, as he is a Director, there is probably no one who has the power to discipline him anyway.

It's probably a case of put up or shut up. I'd be looking for another job, personally.

[DoinItForTheKids]

I am Single but obviously that could take months. I don't think the more senior people are scared of him, they don't know who he is and think all his ideas are brilliant. When in fact they're built on sand as he's not thought how he'll resource them, what is a reasonable and realistic time duration for the work to be completed - he'll probably achieve his deliverables but it will be at the expense of other people who work for him.

[Singlenotsingle]

Well you probably need to use the grievance procedure then, but batten down the hatches!

[daisychain01]

You are only 1 year into the role, so you have no employment rights that can guard you against this person.

Think about who this is about.

If the concerns about other people and his treatment of them, believe me when I say that raising a grievance will not go down well, and the kindest thing you can do is take the staff member to one side and quietly suggest they have the option of raising a grievance about their circumstances. You don't have any grounds to raise a grievance about them, you can help them know their right only if they choose.

If the issue is specific to you personally and his treatment of you, then your best hope of safeguarding your working relationship, is to consider in advance what exactly your grievance is about and take the specific problem to him in a confidential informal conversation, not stated as a grievance. You just want to sort out a "misunderstanding", "a problem that is happening" but certainly not anything targeted at his personality. It has to be keep neutral, very tactful and measured otherwise he will pull rank and probably put a bomb under the working relationship.

He has already proven himself as incapable of introspection and self-correcting actions AKA delusional you won't change that!

[daisychain01]

Sorry just to clarify you can help them know their rights, it's up to them whether they wish to exercise those rights

[Belleende]

Oh I know this one well, we call it the eye of Sauron, you know when it's gaze is on you.

I think you are in a weak position to tackle this. You have only been there a year and you are junior. Unless you have one or more senior people onside, I think you will struggle to get traction with this on your own.

We have a similar director. He picks on pretty much everyone on my level in turn, but at any one time he always has a lock on a particular team and/or individual. He is relentlessly critical.

I survived my turn in the spotlight due to a supportive boss and some good coaching. I tackled him head on, challenged his view of me, asked directly what I needed to do to convince him I was good at my job. It worked, I think he respected that I had the balls to challenge him.

Didn't stop him moving onto the next victim. He is still there. Been given ever more responsibility, still shitting on people and getting away with it.

I would Say suck it up or move on. It sucks, but you have little to gain here.

[DoinItForTheKids]

Never heard of them before Yaya but I'll have a look, thank you.

[Piffpaffpoff]

You have literally given me flashbacks. The tank analogy in particular. Been there, experienced it, could have written your post.

My advice to you is leave. I went off with stress, told HR exactly why, got all the platitudes, all the support, but nothing changed. The turnover in staff was noticeable but nothing changed. Everyone around us - management, hr, colleagues - knew exactly what the boss was like and how they treated us but nothing changed.

For the sake of your career and your mental health, leave. You shouldn’t have to, but you have to look after yourself first and nothing will change in your team. Sorry. The good news is you get to do a blistering exit interview. That’s good fun.

[DoinItForTheKids]

Christ I'm sorry about that Piff! I can totally imagine how it would if you experienced the same thing. My apologies.

Sadly, I now feel that if I raise a complaint it literally won't do anything and I also don't want other people who would be approached as witnesses to get dragged into this whole mess. You'll laugh at this. Re all the many staff who left his department. The male ones left 'to pursue exciting new career challenges', the female ones left 'because they were crap/couldn't hack it' - I kid you not.

As to the going off with stress thing, I'll tell you, yesterday I could have walked out of there and not come back. And it isn't so much the stress (although yes, it is stressful), it's more it's so utterly frustrating and enraging. I'm holding back from letting forth a torrent of words that would knock his socks off (and which would do me no good). I'm constantly in a 'Keep your mouth SHUT DoinIt, don't react' state! This guy's literally following the pathway of a megalomaniac that seemingly will continue unchallenged.

So I would 'go off with stress' but it's not so much the stress, it's the utter frustration and knowing that there's nothing I can do about it along with a huge dollop of I just cannot stand to be around him or his sidekick (for he has one of these as well so they continually reinforce each other's fantasticness when in fact sidekick is the laziest person I think I've ever met but big boss let's him get away with whatever he wants).

So I'm leaving it re a complaint but will continue to make a record of unpleasant comments this guy makes etc.

And, I'm making every effort to leave this place and find another job and can only pray that I find one really really soon but it won't be easy as I really want to step up to a much more challenging role so I've got to convince people they should hire me!! (Obviously they should, I'm fabulous!!).

I cannot WAIT for the exit interview.....

[daisychain01]

OP I'd caution you against getting embroiled in a "tell it like it is" exit interview. Call me a cynic but to my mind they're a great HR tool to get disgruntled employees to spill the beans, but they do nothing with the information they find out other than store it on the employee's record as a permanent reminder to them not to cooperate or help that person in the future eg respond in a timely manner to reference requests.

I bet you everyone who's anyone in that place already knows your boss is a nightmare, they don't need you to remind them.

It's a case of never burn your bridges. If you get a new job, walk out as a model employee, head held high and be glad you're going on to better things.

[Hassled]

That tank analogy got me too - it's a perfect way to describe that sort of "you're in the spotlight now" bullying.

Are your options leave, formal complaint or nothing? Who is your boss's boss? Would an informal "this is how he makes me and other people feel" chat be of any use?

[CheekyRedhead]

Daisy companies do use exit data. Mine certainly does. It's helped us resolve issues we knew about but people wouldn't speak up and helped us fix things we didn't know. Bullys/ poor staff etc have been brought through full grievance procedures. Some resigned some we exited. Some are on final warnings. It helps.

're the op making a complaint, my concern is a lot is about other people. A complaint would look better if about her e.g. he did this to me, made me feel x. 're colleagues stuff should be secondary

[DoinItForTheKids]

Daisy you could well be right. Nothing that's been done or said so far has either a. resulted in anyone looking deeper into him/his behaviours and b. when he receives feedback he completely fails to adjust any of his behaviours - so indeed, what would be the point?

I get what you're saying Cheeky but they've been told before, other senior people have been told before, there's been a complaint before... Reality is setting in for me; our HR just wouldn't do anything with it me thinks.

Hassled my boss's boss - I'd rather not say job titles, but if the Board is the top of the tree then my bosses boss would be the third from top. Essentially this person should be managing people at my bosses level but they have no performance KPIs for people at my boss's level so of course cannot compare all of them across the board to see which ones are actually really crap/good. Sadly, my boss only shows (of course) his willing, listening (although he's not really), engage with you face to these people; he then returns to his desk to bludgeon his team into delivering, delivering, delivering at any cost. This means I spend much time each day trying to repair the alienation he creates with multiple areas of the business and I have to do all of it by 'flying under the radar' to get it done.

It's insane that collaborating and working with other departments has to be conducted as a top secret exercise but there you go, that's what I have to do as I realise we need these colleagues on board and we're always on the brink of 'losing them' because of boss and his sidekick's appallingly arrogant behaviours.

[Piffpaffpoff]

Don’t apologise Doinit, it was a long time ago and I moved on to better and brighter things!

The exit interview, if nothing else, was good for my mental health. The hr and management team had already demonstrated they were not prepared to do anything about the situation so I was clear in my mind that nothing concrete would happen, but it was a immensely helpful for me to ‘have my say’ and know that I had been open and honest about my experience. Cathartic. And it allowed me to move on.

Good luck with the job hunting!

[DoinItForTheKids]

Cheers!

[Belleende]

doinitforthekids I am beginning to think we work in the same place. Are his initials DS?

[codswallopandbalderdash]

Umm I know someone like this. To seniors / CEOs / Board the person in question puts on a charming / brilliant face but underneath it all there is a nasty, aggressive, incompetent bully. I am aware there have been previous complaints about behaviours but ultimately nothing concrete is done. There is lots of acknowledging that 'more work needs to be done to build positive relationship' but for the people directly involved their situations, if anything ,get worse.

Don't bother to put your head above the parapet with a complaint that will be ignored at best or make your working life even more grim. Focus your energies on getting something better and try to ignore the rest

[DoinItForTheKids]

No it's not a DS here!