Application form.. can they ask these questions?

[alltoomuchrightnow]

I thought these days these weren't meant to be asked.. am filling in an application form right now (England)
Need age and date of birth, sex, nationality, marital status.
How is marital status relevant?

[daisychain01]

Any information requested needs to be justifiable. Do you have any reason for not wanting to state your marital status? It isn't discriminatory if they ask men and women the same question.

If you are applying for a public sector role, marital status would need to be given - if the candidate is successful, security checks include candidate's husband/wife/civil partner.

It is probably best to check, as there may be justification for asking, or alternatively if you don't wish to provide the information leave it blank and see if they ask. Then you can ask why it is needed.

[EBearhug]

They can't use any of those for deciding who to interview and employ, although nationality could be relevant in terms of work visas - but most places ask that directly, about whether you have the right to work in the UK, because that's what they actually need to know.

I would probably leave the fields blank, or phone and ask them and also be tempted not to apply at all, if they're a company that does think it's relevant - but I say that from the position of looking for jobs because I want a change, not for being unemployed and needing a job so I don't starve. I couldn't afford to be so fussy in those circumstances.

[EBearhug]

If you are applying for a public sector role, marital status would need to be given - if the candidate is successful, security checks include candidate's husband/wife/civil partner.

They don't need your marital status for security - they need to know who you share your life with, if anyone. Someone's not less of a security risk if you live together with someone you're not married to.

[cloudtree]

They can ask whatever they like. If they then however use that information in a way which discriminates against you for a reason protected by the Equality Act then you could potentially bring a claim.

[alltoomuchrightnow]

I'm not being fussy, EBear, I'm desperate for a job. I have filled the form in as Unmarried.
I just wondered why they asked as I haven't come across this for years
The job is to work in a chemist as an assistant

[alltoomuchrightnow]

(not as a pharmacist.. I'm not qualified, they said they don't need experience)

[Fatted]

They can ask these questions but shouldn't use them in deciding who gets the job. Usually this information is removed prior to short listing applications.

[daisychain01]

I agree it's all about the timing, as to when certain questions are asked that could bring about risk of biase.

Another thought, their HR processes may be lagging behind and that includes the form they use and the questions they are asking at the job application stage. With GDPR coming in, companies should be scrutinising every stage of data gathering and asking themselves if they really need to ask for data they don't actually need it.

The other day, a gym I wanted to join asked me for my date of birth on their form. I challenged them as to why they needed that data on their computer. They said So we know what membership to give you. They should be asking "are you under 18yo" that's all they need, not DOB.

Historically it has been ask for everything 'just in case' it's needed. Now it should be, only ask for what's needed, but not before it's needed.

[Mountainsoutofmolehills]

the only one they can ask out of those is your nationality and sex. and even the latter is debatable, because anything that would discriminate is omited, like age/dob as would be height/weight, unless these were mandatory for the job.

[marjorie25]

If I was HR and it looked as if you willfully left off that information, I would throw your application in the trash.

[daisychain01]

If I was HR and it looked as if you willfully left off that information, I would throw your application in the trash

How gratuitously aggressive can you get.

People have an absolute right to decide not to include data about themselves if they don't want to. It should not stop their opportunity for employment.

I'd love to know how you can detect that they "wilfully" left off their marital status.

In fact nowadays there is often an option for " I'd rather not say" for those types of questions but it sounds like you live in the dark ages so unlikely to treat people like human beings..

[BubblesBuddy]

Many employers ask for the info but have it on a separate sheet and remove it for shortlisting.

[marjorie25]

daisychain01
It's not being aggressive. Just as you feel that you have the right not to give the information, then my right as an employer is not to employ you, hence binning your application.
If you think that this is not done, what more can I say.
You may be amazed at what HR can detect from just someone filling in an application form.
It's not me who is living in the dark ages, you need to try and get our more often, then you may learn what is taking place in the real world.
These practices may not be open for employees to see, but they are actually happening.

[alltoomuchrightnow]

I've had several interviews where I was asked if I was pregnant or planning to have children. I've posted about this before. The last time this happened was last year. It's a really shit thing to ask an infertile person anyway. They don't know I am but shouldn't just assume I'm fertile.
Regarding this job, apparently it's now gone to someone anyway ('they think'). The job was still advertised when I gave in my form.

[flowery]

"If I was HR and it looked as if you willfully left off that information, I would throw your application in the trash....Just as you feel that you have the right not to give the information, then my right as an employer is not to employ you, hence binning your application.
If you think that this is not done, what more can I say.
You may be amazed at what HR can detect from just someone filling in an application form.
It's not me who is living in the dark ages, you need to try and get our more often, then you may learn what is taking place in the real world.
These practices may not be open for employees to see, but they are actually happening"

Luckily, most sensible and competent HR people (and line managers) prioritise someone's skills, qualifications and experience when shortlisting for a job, rather than whether they've filled in a marital status question which has no bearing on competence.

I can imagine it now...

Recruiting manager: "I hear that A's application for the sales job was binned. I'm really struggling to find good people and she's got bags of experience doing something similar. What happened?"

marjorie25: "Oh yes, well she did have lots of experience but she didn't tell us whether she's married or not, and I think that was deliberate, so I ditched her. I could detect something sinister about that gap in her application form. You'll have to manage with inexperienced candidate B instead."

[mostdays]

Do you work in HR, marjorie?

[marjorie25]

flowery :
Obviously your common sense is not common at all.
But go ahead and think that HR really is going to be interested in someone who willfully leaves off answering a question.
Have you thought that the question may be there for a reason?
I would have second thoughts if someone were to omit the truth when asked a question.
It's called integrity. If you can lie for something like that, what else are you willing to lie about.
What people don't seem to understand, once you start lying, you have to keep it up, also you have to remember what you answers you gave to previous questions.

[EBearhug]

Lying is putting your date down as 1989 rather than 1982, not omitting it.

[daisychain01]

Marjorie you are clearly confused about the difference between someone exercising their right to decline giving marital status and giving false information

If someone failed to disclose that they had a criminal conviction that would be lying (by omission as they are deliberately withholding key information with the purpose of deceiving) Deciding not to state marital status on an application form isn't lying because everyone has a marital status of some description. It's just the applicant concerned elects not to state it at that stage.

As a manager recruiter myself I would never be so daft as to narrow my candidate pool by "binning" the form when the person could be the perfect match for my team. That's called common sense,I think you may not have any, judging by your arcane views.

[marjorie25]

daisychain01 :

This is my last comment on this asinine thread.
If a question is asked and the person filling in the form does not fill in that part of the question, its a huge red flat.
What are they hiding?
The question was not asked because the employer thought: hey let's confuse these applicants and ask this question.
It is there for a particular reason and if you as a prospective employee thinks that you do not need to fill in that part of the question, then me as the employer, don't need you to work for me.
If you are hiding this, what else are you hiding.
I am done.
Integrity is what counts, and if you don't have it, you are worthless to me, no matter how good you are.
As I said common sense is not common anymore.
If you think for one minute this does not happen, well I am done and out of here.

[JessicaEccles]

I'm guessing from majorie's charming manner- she does indeed work in HR

[daisychain01]

Jessica

It's a shame, as the HR people I have to deal with are lovely, but I think Marjorie may have issues of trust, and probably isn't a good fit in terms of working in a people-centric envonment.

I'd actually love to know her burning reason for needing to know marital status at the selection stage. We'll probably never know....

[EBearhug]

It is there for a particular reason and if you as a prospective employee thinks that you do not need to fill in that part of the question, then me as the employer, don't need you to work for me.

But what reason, these days, is there for including questions on marital status? It's been 5 decades since any job in Britain had a marriage bar, and longer in most cases. You're not meant to discriminate on grounds of age, so why include a date of birth? You can usually get a rough idea from dates on job's and qualifications anyway.

You're right, though. If you think that's important in hiring, then I have little interest in working for you. I like working for employers who understand issues around diversity.

[alltoomuchrightnow]

Asinine thread!!?
I thought it was a fair question, which was, how is marital status relevant in an job application?

[B1rdonawire]

I can't see how it's relevant at the application stage, but the question does have relevance once employed, as payroll systems will have a field for that in case people are wanting to share tax allowance with a partner, for example.

Good hiring practice would be to remove the personal data (including age and marital status, and name because it makes the gender obvious usually) and shortlist based on the skills and experience and the quality of the answers given. That's easier to achieve in a bigger employer with a designated HR team, of course.