Employer refusing to pay annual leave

[justmet]

Hi all, my daughter booked a week off work as holiday and the day before her annual leave started she called in sick. (Period pains so she was ok to go away the next day) Her manager told her because she’s called in sick they now won’t pay her holiday! I work in payroll myself and we dont do this to our employees. I’ve had a google and cant find anything about it either so I wondered if anyone here knows if that is allowed?

[TalkFastThinkSlow]

I've never heard of that, it sounds illegal.

In the past, if I was ill before or while off, I would be asked if I wanted to change my holiday days to sick days, but pay was never refused.

[bananasandwicheseveryday]

I work in a school. If we are off si k the day before, or the day after a school holiday, we ha e to get a doctor's certificate. Where DS and DIL work (not public sector), they have to provide medical evidence if they call in sick the day before or after annual leave.

[BeyondThePage]

Used to work in civil service (20 years ago, so may not be current rules) and they kind of did this - you still got paid sick-leave - but any sick days were counted from the first day of absence until the return to work.

So a Friday off was 3 days sick. Go sick the day before a holiday, the holiday was counted as sick.

[BakedBeans47]

I’ve come across it before. A bit of a bizarre practice IMO without proof that the employee has been taking the piss and it should be clearly set out in their contract that this will happen.

It may be worth looking through her contract and seeing what it says and then perhaps deciding whether it’s worth raising a grievance.

The employer will now need to accommodate the holiday at another time anyway, and if she’s on SSP she won’t be paid for the sick day anyway. I can see that companies who pay full sick pay might have such a rule to avoid staff claiming they were sick their whole holiday and then asking to take the holiday at another time mind you

[suchasoftersin]

This has been common practice in all private sector businessesI have worked in. If you were off ill in run up to holiday and did not return to work prior to thw holiday beginning you would not receive pay for annual leave. I always assumed it was to deter people trying to extend their holidays with sick days. Some managers however would use their discretion to allow the pay to go through.

[justawhisper]

Used to happen at a job and be been at and also if you're sick day after holiday. Was in the contract.

[flowery]

So what kind of leave do they think she took? Not sick leave as she only self-certified for one day. Not annual leave otherwise they'd pay her for it.

She doesn't lose the holiday, they'll have to give it her another time, but i can't see what justification they have for not paying her in circumstances where she only self-certified for one day and wasn't trying to use sick leave to go on holiday or anything.

[flowery]

It's entirely likely her manager is wrong, so she should check policies before assuming.

[mariefab]

When your daughter called in sick; did she make it clear that she was only going to be sick for that one day?

[MaryMandala]

Does she have a union or HR Dept she can call for advice? We can't really advise on here without seeing her terms and conditions.

[Faultymain5]

I've worked at many places in the last 24 years and have never had this.

I worked at a top 10 law firm where this happened to me. I was sick with an inner ear infection for two weeks (so Dr certificate) and the day after cert ran out was booked as holiday.

I went on the holiday and I got paid properly.

To me this sounds outrageous and in these modern times those kind of details are not usually in the contract but on the staff intranet. I'd have a look at both. And ask them to reconsider their position.

[Lucked]

Get her to ask to see the policy and make sure all communication is in email so she has evidence going forward. Also she should definitely book the annual leave that she is entitled to!

All those saying you need a doctors certificates, that is complete abuse of NHS time and GPs should say no, self certification is appropriate in this case.