Promotion for no extra pay

[BillyDaveysDaughter]

I am currently an employed "Associate Director" for a very small firm (as in, less than 10 employees, although the company is owned by a much larger parent company).

I've been there 12 months, and things are going well. But during those 12 months I noticed that my colleagues, especially my fellow directors, always refer to me as the "Director" of the area I specialise in - whether they are introducing me to clients, introducing me at a conference, or just putting my name in a structure chart for a presentation. I am only referred to as Associate on my card, which is rarely dished out anyway, and in my email signature - otherwise I am verbally referred to as Director.

I've patiently waited for to get 12 months under my belt and demonstrate the required competence for the role, and approached my MD to ask whether there were plans to actually make me up to Director, considering I'm only ever referred to as such anyway. MD acknowledged that and said there certainly was - but didnt say when, and pointed out that "there wasn't necessarily any money in it."

Disappointing, although I'm fully aware that our budget won't stretch to an increase. DH says that I should therefore turn it down if I'm offered the full directorship, because I'd be a mug to take the responsibility with no additional reward, and they are just using me to do more work for less money.

I disagree - I'd like the experience, the kudos and the title on my CV frankly, and although a matching salary would be nice, it's not the main thing. I am thinking about the long term.

So how do I approach this with the MD? We get along fine but they are a bit...well...vague. I want to know where I stand but I don't want to be pushy either.

[BillyDaveysDaughter]

for objective observations...

[daisychain01]

DH says that I should therefore turn it down if I'm offered the full directorship, because I'd be a mug to take the responsibility with no additional reward, and they are just using me to do more work for less money

No - they are paying you to do the job you are doing, that hasn’t changed. Your MD has been honest with you, so I don’t get the logic that they are “using you”. The fact is there isn’t currently a Director position available and making you a Director is a cosmetic job title change in name only. Maybe there are already enough Chiefs and they don’t need any more. Maybe they don’t want to give you additional financial decision making clout because their Corporate finances cannot sustain it in real terms, they are cutting their cloth.

How would being a Director differ in terms of actual experience, compared to what you do as an Associate? You may want to enhance your CV and status, but ultimately if they have signalled they aren’t ready or able to do that, you need to decide if it’s a deal breaker. Could it be that a year isn’t long enough and you need to give it more time? Are you willing to wait? Could you try to set an agreement on timescales in place with your MD or could that destabilise the relationship?

[over40andpregnant]

Know your worth

I know you would like the title but promotion should equal more money
What’s the going rate for the role

I have taken on more responsibility before with jo extra money happy with the kudos later to find out all the men got the money because they asked and they didn’t

You will kick yourself to not even have the money conversation

If they had to recruit from outside it would cost them much more

I am not saying don’t take it
But at least have the discussion and timescale
And if no money now then when with time scales and what you need to show to get it

Please ask so many women don’t and it’s why we are paid less

[GalaVanting]

You have a valid reason for choosing to accept a promotion with no increase however, two things:

1. If you move companies and salary history is requested, you’re going to always be paid at the very bottom of the range.

1. You will be paid for some of your work and essentially volunteering your time/energy in other aspects.

[daisychain01]

Is the Board made up of mostly male Directors? If so, and especially if you are the only female Associate, you may have a case for discrimination. However I would keep the thought in your back pocket in case a further discussion proves successful.

You don’t want to sour the relationship before having the more detailed discussion about timescales and rationale as to why the Directorship is cosmetic job title and not a full promotion to the Board.

[RavingRoo]

Your dh has a very good point. Why are you sabotaging your career? If you are an AD now and want to be a MD then leave your company to do it if they don’t have the money. Doing a promotion for free means you’ll always be on the lower end of the pay scale:

[sparechange]

Will you be actually getting a directorship?

There is a world of difference between that, and having ‘director’ as part of your job title.

It sounds like this is more about changing your job title than changing your role, so I don’t think you can automatically assume a pay rise at this stage.

But from the wording of your conversation with your boss, it sounds like he hasn’t totally ruled it out - perhaps you can see it as the start of a negotiation which leads to a staggered promotion/payrise over the next couple of years?

[BillyDaveysDaughter]

daisychain hmm interesting. You’re right that the day-to-day job will not change – indeed I am doing everything that my (male) predecessor was doing as a Director, including financial decision making and agreeing strategy and budget. I am already “on the board”, but for £20k less and at AD level!

On that basis it may already be too late, I’m doing the same job for less, so any upgrade to Director would be in title only. I am willing to wait, I like the firm and the parent company, I like the job, it’s perfect for me and I’m very happy. Having the director title would pretty much top it, even though the responsibilities wouldn’t really change!

I will ask the MD directly, we should be able to have a sensible discussion. I suppose there could be an element of discrimination, but I doubt it…as you say, that’s one to keep to myself for now! The company has been around for a couple of decades, and never a female director. That might just be coincidence…

over40 I do want to ask, but I’m aware that a fellow (male) director has repeatedly asked for a raise, but hasn’t received one for several years - partly budget related, but mainly performance related. Due to my specialism I am not assessed on performance in the same way as he is, but I don’t want to start throwing my weight around re money. Equally I can’t leave it unsaid, when a) I know what my (male) predecessor was on, and b) we have recently been relieved of a rather large directors salary, so I know there must be budget there!

GalaVanting RavingRoo I know, I seem to have spent my whole career at the lower levels of pay in comparison to others in my industry. I’ve historically moved around to prompt for increases!

sparechange good point – although I am essentially already doing everything involved in a directorship, but with an AD title and salary. They’ve treated me as a Director from the start, it’s as though they’ve forgotten that my title is AD. I keep reminding them and they just shrug it off.

I could take the approach that they should be giving me the title and the salary that fits with the role I am doing – but I’m not sure I have the balls!! And maybe that’s my problem…

[BillyDaveysDaughter]

Sorry, I meant to say thank you very much for the responses! I don't have anyone in real life to talk to about this.