Can I withhold sick pay

[mimiasovitch]

We have an employee in the kitchen who is continually taking the piss in many many ways - Head chef is dealing with this, but in a fit of pique the other day he punched a fridge, leading to time off, now on the second week. He can't work with the damage he's done, but in this situation, do we have to pay him? It was his own temper that led to this, and I'm not sure we should have to compensate him for it.

[Glitterkitten24]

Yeah I would be withholding sick pay, and formally investigating his conduct at work when/if he returned. In my place of work you'd have your arse handed to you for losing your temper and punching anything!

[daisychain01]

It sound like this chap is having some problems. I'd say it would be a more socially aware approach to invite him to a meeting and offer him an opportunity to talk about anything happening in his life that is causing him to behave like that.

You could say you will pay him his sick pay this one time and that this is an informal chat. Any future behaviour will be considered much more serious, so what can he do to reassure you he really wants to mend his ways.

It may all backfire and he continues to behave badly, but on the other hand it could prove to be a turning point for him.

[Spam88]

No idea on the legalities of withholding sick pay, but just wanted to say that I know someone who punched a wall in work. It was the culmination of months of stress due to work and they were then signed off for several months until occupational health were satisfied that enough changes had been made to enable them to go back. So I'd just be cautious of it being something like that.

[mimiasovitch]

Thanks for the advice. He is stressed, I know this. Mainly because his girlfriend dumped him, then after months of moping they got back together and then she dumped him again. We have been sympathetic for months, but there is only so much we can take. He would also like more money and fewer hours, but then so we would all.

Unfortunately I didn't know it was self inflicted until a few days later. There are witnesses thankfully.

[flowery]

As you are an employer, especially as you are considering withholding statutory pay entitlement, I would advise you to invest in some proper RL professional advice rather than conducting your business based on getting free advice from randoms on the internet.

[mimiasovitch]

Flowery - I have no doubt that I will actually pay him, I'm just a bit pissed off at his actions, and was wondering whether it was worth looking into. If everyone had said 'no, doesn't matter how it happened', then I wouldn't look into it all. Rest assured I wasn't going to go back to him with 'sorry love, a couple of folk on the internet said I didn't have to pay you',

[flowery]

I'm sure you wouldn't have said that to him. Doesn't change my viewpoint at all.

Employees who ask for knowledgeable people to give their time and advice for free on here are absolutely fine in my book. More than happy to help.

Employers who try it because they're too cheap to pay for proper advice? Not on, as far as I'm concerned.

[insancerre]

Well said flowery
Where I work we pay mega bucks to outsource our hr
Because the consequences of getting it wrong would be too much of a risk to take

[TittyGolightly]

You can't withhold statutory sick pay (although they need a fit note to cover absence beyond 7 days). Any company sick pay would depend on your policy.

[VivienneWestwoodsKnickers]

Is he off because he's injured his hand or another reason? What disciplinary action are you taking in respect of his unacceptable behaviour in the workplace?

[peukpokicuzo]

"Statutory sick pay" - statutory means that it's the legal minimum you are required to pay no matter what.

If your normal employment T&C give more generous sick pay terms than SSP then downgrading to SSP could be an option. However, surely this isn't the first time that an employee has self-inflicted their reason for being off sick and it won't be the last so you need a written policy defining exactly what circumstances warrant such a downgrade and apply it consistently to all staff.

To play devil's advocate someone who has a contraceptively careless sexual encounter, a positive pg test and an abortion is going to need time off for a self-inflicted reason. So is someone who has mental health issues that lead them to do themselves a serious self-harm injury. Also someone who breaks various bones and is hospitalised for weeks due to drunkenly showing off a ridiculously dangerous stunt whilst on a skiing holiday.

Drawing a line to properly define which circumstances deserve more generous sick pay and which don't would be a minefield.