Overpayment from old employment

[Andbabymakesthree]

Following not returning from a career break I was paid by previous employer as line manager and HR didn't process that I wouldn't be returning in a timely manner.

I was paid and notified my line manager immediately. 3 months later I had a letter asking for repayment. I said I would write and appeal as didn't like the tone of the man on the phone who was threatening debt collectors (I have no debt whatsoever so this really annoyed me).

An operation for me and daughters hospital admission all took priority and I never got round to it. I've now received another letter saying appeal or pay.

I will now appeal on the basis of financial hardship. I have had my tax credits renewal through. There is an amount showing on there as employed income. Its more than what they paid into account bit I now realise I paid tax , no, union and sports and social sub from that months wage. So basically I'm due a tac rebate too.

However the truth is I feel financially penalised twice. They are expecting me to pay back the money and it will be taken into account when working out tax credits. I could also in theory receive a fine for not reporting it within 30 days I've since realised. Btw I was planning on declaring it as other income on tax return but now they are doing real time downloads I think it'll have to stay as earned income.

Any advice on wording this appeal. I'm really annoyed I've been put into this situation by their incompetence - I've seen found out that this is a really common occurrence.

[flowery]

If you notified your line manager immediately, ie you realised straightaway you'd been overpaid, what happened between then and them writing to you three months later asking for the money? And if you knew it was an overpayment why did you spend it? (I'm assuming you have, if you are planning to appeal on the grounds of financial hardship).

I'm sorry, I'm just struggling to see the justification in appealing in circumstances where you knew you'd been overpaid. I can understand it more in circumstances where someone has reason to genuinely not realise, and to therefore spend the money, sometimes over years.

But this sounds like a one off additional payment that you weren't expecting to get and knew immediately wasn't yours. Surely the best you can hope for on the grounds of financial hardship is the opportunity to pay in instalments?

[Tiggeryoubastard]

Just pay back what you owe. You want to appeal on the grounds of not liking someone's tone? Don't be so ridiculous. One you've paid, notify tax credits of the error and the fact you've paid it.

[Andbabymakesthree]

Flowery it just got swallowed up and i wasnt keeping a sharp eye on the finances especially whilst daughter in hospital.

The main point is even if i paid it back now or in installments its still declareable income. They cant amend p45/p60 nor can tax credits.

Tigger no i didn't appreciate the man's tone. I asked what legal recourse do you have to reclaim money. Thats when he said we'll send debt collectors around.

Yes i did notify line manager straight away. I also told him really clearly that this shouldn't have happened and i dont need the stress. If they promise if doesnt affect my rax position I'll repay it immediately - except they dragged their heels and now it does.

[IceMaiden73]

YABU you were overpaid, you were well aware of this, yet you have spent the money. Why are you being so difficult?

Ask them to reissue the paperwork with the correct information on, then pay them back and then sort it out with tax credits

Sorry but you have bought this on yourself by ignoring them

[TheWildRumpyPumpus]

Of course they can claim back the money - you have no grounds at all for disputing that fact. A legal expert may be able to say what would happen if it were years later they came calling, but 3 months isn't long.

If you really can't afford it they may allow a payment plan perhaps?

[Tiggeryoubastard]

A P45 or P60 can be reissued if the facts on the original are incorrect. And you asked what legal recourse they had to retrieve the money that you owe, sounds like you were trying it on. He answered you. Nothing wrong with that. Just pay what you owe.

[Andbabymakesthree]

They've told me very clearly they won't reissue the P45 or P60.

So I'm still stuck repaying an overpayment and having my tax credits reduced because of something that isn't my error. Really sodding fair. My family will be financially penalised twice. They can have it at £10 a month if absolutely necessary.

Quite why they paid it after a SIX year break is ridiculous. They had six weeks notice of me not returning following it taking them three months to decide a flexible working request ( not terms I could return on).

[Tiggeryoubastard]

They can't re issue until you pay what you owe. Pay it then speak to HMRC. They will sort it. But I doubt you will as you're looking for excuses not to pay.

[flowery]

"The main point is even if i paid it back now or in installments its still declareable income"

No that really isn't the 'main point'. The main point is that you were receiving no salary from them for 6 years, therefore were not used to receiving money from them, not budgeting for it, you suddenly had an unexpected payment from them which you knew was wrong straightaway, but you (not they) dragged your heels about repaying it, complained about people's 'tone', and are now clearly looking for excuses to get out of paying it back.

If it just got 'swallowed up' as you say, then presumably it must be a fairly small amount of money, in which case for goodness sake just pay it back.

If it was a big chunk of money, it can't have just got 'swallowed up' by your normal bills to the extent that you can't pay it back, so therefore they will quite reasonably argue that you spent it knowingly and you not having it available to pay straight back is not their problem.

Pay it back, and sort out the tax situation afterwards. Don't waste your time appealing the fact that you have to pay it back, you will make yourself look ridiculous. Appealing is worthwhile when someone's been overpaid over a long period of time and genuinely couldn't or didn't realise, and now has to pay back a large chunk. It's not worthwhile when you've received one overpayment which you clearly knew was wrong, as there are no grounds for that to be waived at all.

[Andbabymakesthree]

No need to be so rude and goady Tigger. Would you seriously be happy in my shoes?

They said even if repaid neither P45 nor P60 will be reissued. Even more complex now we are in another tax year. They are now required to give HMRC all figures even if they know it's an overpayment being recovered.

[Andbabymakesthree]

Flowery I'm quite happy to look ridiculous appealing. It's "only" £600 but it's money we just don't have right so at least an appeal with give me breathing space get finances in a better state.

[Tiggeryoubastard]

I'd be quite happy to pay what I owed. As would any honest people. And I know that a P60 can be reissued, if the employer won't do it all you need to do is give the facts and the figures to HMRC once you've paid. And I'm being neither rude not goady, as I guess the guy on the phone wasn't when you asked him what legal recourse they had to get the money you owe back from them. You've had it, it needs to be paid back. Stop looking for excuses.

[flowery]

Knock yourself out then, however I fear you may have trouble convincing them that £600 you weren't expecting and knew wasn't yours just got 'swallowed up' and therefore you don't have it anymore.

[Tiggeryoubastard]

£600 that wasn't mine wouldn't just get 'swallowed up'. so convincing anybody I'd spent money that I knew wasn't mine wouldn't happen.

[Andbabymakesthree]

Oh please tigger . Youve not had a child in hospital and the costs associated with it. Nothing like kicking people when they are down. Implying I'm not honest. Gee aren't you nice.

So they've lied or youre outdated /misinformed.They've told me they can not reissue an p45 or P60 just simply write a letter to say repaid. New rules from hmrc apparently.

[MOB247]

Same thing happened to My DH - he paid back after 3 weeks when his old company finally contacted us with the sort code of the account it should be paid into.

I can see how it's annoying when you have extra money in your account that doesn't belong to you and trying not to spend it but surely you must have known that you would have to pay it back eventually? I doubt they will give you the money as a good will gesture and you may have to pay more back than that if they go through bailiff route etc....

[Andbabymakesthree]

And im more than happy to create some additional work for them. They need to create a better system to stop this happening. Every person I've spoken to who has left the department has had an overpayment. Incompetent F*ckwits in payroll and not one has actually ever paid it back.

[Andbabymakesthree]

If was there ready to be repaid then financial shit happened. We've had a pretty tough time recently. Not purposely been out on a spending spree just a run of really bad luck :-(

[Tiggeryoubastard]

Actually I have had a child in hospital. For 4 months on and off, with husband away in a war zone. I sympathise with that, I honestly do, and I hope your child is on the mend. But £600 doesn't just get swallowed up. And you're trying to get out of paying. You even tried to get clever with the man on the phone then saying you took offence when he answered you. Maybe I'm nice, maybe I'm not. But I pay what I owe and have never tried to get out of that. A letter to HMRC will get the accounts corrected once they've checked it out, but you need to pay what you owe before that can be done. So stop blaming everybody else and saying you're being penalised. You've had £600 that you knew wasn't yours.

[Andbabymakesthree]

Competitive saddening. Mumsnet at its best

[QueenLaBeefah]

Could you maybe organise a repayment plan with your ex employers, rather than paying the full whack back?

Legally you will have to pay it back.

[Andbabymakesthree]

That's what I'll have to do queen I certainly don't want debt collectors at my door.

[Tiggeryoubastard]

And again, you can't stand people stating facts. You told me I'd never experienced something. I stated the fact. Absolutely nothing competitive. But again you're turning yourself into the victim. The mans attitude in response to yours. Myself stating facts. But poor you, if it gets you off paying. You should take responsibility for your actions. As you've learned with this, playing the victim won't get you anywhere inmost situations.

[Andbabymakesthree]

I simply asked what if I can't pay it back right now and was told we'll send debt collectors around for it ( aggressively) . I said I really don't think that's appropriate at the moment can I talk to someone from the overpayments dept then I got a helpful women who said appeal.

So I will still appeal. Like I said gives me breathing space.

Will they have to go to court if I just didn't pay and get a court order or could they just instruct a private debt collectors

[Tiggeryoubastard]

You said you asked what legal recourse they had to reclaim the money. Not what if you can't pay it back. And actually, either way he's correct. They can do that. But don't let your previously stated comments stand in the way of your martyrdom.