Update on maternity discrimination situation

[seoladair]

Well, my baby is nearly 6 months old, and I still haven't received a penny of maternity pay from my employer (famous, top-notch HE institution) as they appealed against HMRC decision that i should receive maternity pay. Since I claimed maternity pay, they have twisted through hoops to claim I am a casual worker, after treating me as employed for years (albeit with no written contract.)

Just received a letter from HMRC confirming for the second time my entitlement to SMP. The letter spells out why they agree that I'm an employee. So I'll have to wait and see how the crazed HR woman reacts.

I have also had my case taken on by a partner in a firm which specialises in discrimination. She has agreed to work on a no-win, no-fee basis, as she says I have been treated appallingly, and clearly illegally.

I'm about to forward the HMRC letter to HR, and also to tell them that I will be returning to work on my old terms and conditions (HR have said that they can't confirm my return).

The sad thing is that I've realised that if I fight for my right to return, I could eventually be got rid of anyway, if HR decide to reorganise the department (unless the HR woman gets sacked for this, as she might if the HMRC investigation uncovers the numerous other irregularities and non-compliance). So in the end, there is no real protection surrounding pregnancy, if the employer is angry enough about a woman standing up against discrimination. Please prove me wrong on this - I'd love to hear some success stories!

[KatieMortician]

Well I know of ^some

[KatieMortician]

Well someone I know very well negotiated her exit after much less worse discrimination than you have faced and used her settlement to finance the career change she always wanted to make.

Don't know how successful that has been because she is only just about to start looking for work but she is now professionally qualified and much, much happier.

So even a worst case scenario can be hugely positive.

I think you're doing the right thing by the way and you may still keep your job yet. If you liked it there before you could ride it out. My friend is three years on and seriously considering working for her former employer because all the fuckwits people who behaved so badly have moved on and it's a massive organisation and her best bet to kick start her new career.

[sleepevader]

I remember your story. Good luck! Keep us updated!

[StillSquiffy]

We decided to give the converted stables annexe at our home it's own name. It's called the "XYZ company suite" in recognition of the fact that every penny spent in building it came from my out of court settlement from XYZ

And it's a big annexe

Personally I believe that leopards don't change their spots and if you are treated badly it's probably best to move on, so long as you make that move on your own terms and not theirs (and with your pockets full of money, because they are SO in the wrong with this type of behaviour). You need to fight every inch of the way and then move on and not look back.

The discrimination I went through changed my life. I moved on to other things and have ended up in a fab career, doing stuff I love.

And the guy who was at the heart of the treatment I received? Well, maybe two years after I left I got a call from an old colleague who had also moved on. The previous day he'd heard that the board where he had worked had interviewed the guy and decided to give him a board position. My old colleague went in to the FD, told them about my treatment, and the job offer decision was hastily reversed. Served cold, that dish of revenge tasted very very good.

[seoladair]

Thanks for these encouraging stories - although I see that no-one has actually talked about staying on. My only problem is HR - everyoneI work with is lovely, so it might be OK to stay on, but I fear that HR would find a way to manage me out.
A friend who was treated dreadfully by the same people a few years ago (and is still hugely bitter about it) has, in sympathy, arranged some work for me at an institution of equal status, so perhaps I will move there.
The lawyer will take 65 % of any deal, as it's no-win, no-fee, (worth it though, as she's a top name in discrimination) so i might not leave with a very big pay-out.
The latest is that HR are dragging heels on signing the notes taken by HMRC at a meeting a month ago. They tried to get out of a meeting by saying it might "breach my confidentiality" !!! Now they're trying to get out of confirming what the HMRC guy uncovered. I think they're prevaricating to make my life as hard as possible.

[InMyPrime]

Interesting that you work in higher education! It seems to be a haven for poor HR practices. I had to go through a negotiated exit process with my former employer (a university) recently, also for maternity discrimination (and general unfair dismissal) and I was appalled at the poor HR standards I encountered. Previously, I believed I worked for a fairly prestigious employer, with an active union and a duty of care approach towards its employees. Once they decided to single me out for unfair treatment, however, the scales soon fell from my eyes. Central HR didn't even adhere to basic professional standards. They had no clue about the law or even good practice in terms of pregnant employees / discrimination generally. Like you, they tried to claim that I had a different status to university employees overall because I worked for a different part of the organisation.

I hired a good solicitor and she threw the book at them. They had tried to fob me off the whole way through a lengthy grievance process and bully me into just believing that their process was legally valid and they had the final say. I persisted though and got the settlement I wanted.

You really do have to be prepared to burn your bridges if you want to get a settlement though. If you want to stay at the institution, you might be better off involving your union representative and asking him/her to mediate for you?

Also, was a no-win, no-fee solicitor your only option? It sounds like you're getting ripped off if she'll be taking 65% of the settlement. My solicitor cost me about £1800 in fees but my settlement was a year's pay so it was well worth it. I'd shop around for another solicitor as a good one could get you a decent settlement without taking a big cut.

If you want to work for your institution again, you could always negotiate your exit via a solicitor, and then reapply to jobs in other parts of the institution or with the colleagues you like and just bypass HR?

[deardear]

can you not take them for constructive dismissal with an added on of sexual discrimination?

i spoke to my old boss last week about a problem i had at work. he is an employment lawyer. i also dont have a contract despite being there for over 4 years. he said that the fact they have been paying me monthly constitutes a contract.

are you not covered under your building and contents insurance for legal issues as thats how i did my compromise agreement (strangely against the above person but we still get on well and speak often).

personally i would issue a grievance and take it from there. if it is not resolved via the grievance procedure then throw the book at them as you would succeed in a tribunal even if its just for the maternity pay.

another thing i learnt whilst doing mine is that you do not have to be present at a grievance - you can actually ask for the procedure to be carried out by correspondence. that was the only way i could get through mine as i was suffering from severe depression.

[KatieMiddIeton]

Yes I was curious about the 65%. Is that 65% of any settlement for injury to feelings or 65% of settlement for loss of earnings or 65% of the total?

If it's anything other than the former I'd go somewhere else. I would expect to pay about £5,000 round my way to negotiate a good settlement. But if you've a strong case (and yours looks pretty strong) then I'd be trying to negotiate a fixed fee payable upon settlement from employer.

[seoladair]

Thanks for these replies - I've been away for a few days hence late response.

InMyPrime - It seems that Higher Ed really is a haven for poor HR practices - I've read that this kind of situation is becoming common. Your experience sounds scarily like mine, with very arrogant and ill-informed (or knowingly untruthful) HR staff. Do you mind me asking more about your particular preg discrimination situation? Also, did you feel you had to leave, or did it suit you to do so?

DearDear - I'm not covered under any home insurance policies. I do have legal expenses cover through union, but the date I took it out I think was too late to get cover for this, although I'm waiting to find that out for sure. It'd mkae life much easier than the 65 % no-win,no-fee. I think they'd refuse to let me issue a grievance as they're trying to say I'm not employed, though everyone except HR thinks that's nonsense.

KatieMid - it's not clear, but I think it means 65 % of everything. I should get her to clarify. I was hoping that I will get 100 % of my maternity pay and holiday pay, and that she will take 65% of anything over and above that, but it's not clear.

General question - can I really negotiate with a solicitor if I'm a charity case, as it were? Especially given that she's a high-profile solicitor who seriously knows her stuff, and was in the papers last year for helping her client to win a case against a household name?

[KatieMiddIeton]

Yes you can negotiate. You might not get what you want but no harm in asking.

You really should clairfy what the 65% is for. The payment for discrimination is the only bit I'd be prepared to go 65% on but that's just me.

[seoladair]

Yes, that seems to make sense. I will try that. Thank you.

[InMyPrime]

My situation was basically unfair dismissal, seoladair, but with an element of sex discrimination because I was the only person singled out to be put at risk of redundancy, even though other people did similar jobs to mine and had identical skill sets, and I was also the only pregnant employee in the division at the time. The director of my division didn't follow due process at all in putting me at risk of redundancy, had no selection criteria, no pooling and didn't inform me as soon as my position was put at risk but waited 2 months until the decision was final. In the meantime, jobs had been advertised in the division that I could have done and they waited until the application date for those jobs closed before telling me my position was at risk. Initially HR were on my side and said that the director should have followed normal university process, as agreed with the union i.e. clear selection criteria, clear communication from the earliest possible at risk stage and maximum effort to redeploy the person rather than letting them go in a process that should take 3-4 months typically.

Once HR spoke to the director, however, they changed tune and closed ranks around him, saying that university processes didn't apply in my case because employees in my division had a different status so only the bare legal minimum applied. They hadn't even followed the bare legal minimum though so they were in trouble anyway once I got advice from my solicitor.

I was never sure on the discrimination angle because it seemed entirely odd to me that they would be so stupid to pick out the only pregnant employee for a sham redundancy process but the solicitor thought the case was strong and everyone I told about my situation assumed it was because I was pregnant. I guess I was unwilling to believe my employer would be that stupid / nasty. THey compounded the discrimination element too by saying to my union rep that there was no point in redeploying me because I was pregnant(!) so nobody would want to take me on... ! They basically broke every rule in the book but had the stupidity / stubbornness to keep persisting despite it.

In terms of me leaving, I suppose it was constructive dismissal, as I couldn't possibly work back at my old division, having had to raise a grievance against the director. I could in theory have been redeployed within the wider university but in the end I was just glad to get out of such a badly run organisation. I also had other plans anyway as I was having a baby, obviously, and also my husband was considering a job abroad at the time and has now confirmed a really good offer with an employer in California so we'll be moving in the New Year. In your case, if you do want to stay on at your former employer, you could try to go through your union. Even if you're not a member, they might be willing to advise you informally although they can't represent you properly until you're a member.

[KatieMiddIeton]

Hope you got a big fat juicy settlement InMyPrime.

[seoladair]

Disgraceful story, InMyPrime. And very very stupid. But had you wanted to stay on, you would have lost out, as you say. So unless a pregnancy discrimination victim actually wants to leave, she usually seems to lose out, ultimately. We still don't have equality.