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Elderly parents

Sorry very long but I don't know what to do ...

26 replies

Someonesayroadtrip · 03/01/2020 13:54

My grandmother, 94, bed bound, although no physical reason for this, but she is 94 so if she wants to lay in bed thats fine.

She always had to be the most ill person she knows. If anyone says they are ill she is always worse then anyone else. My my grandfather was ill, she was always worse. Even in his last days when he rapidly went down hill she always drew the attention to herself. His last few hours he rapidly declined and my spoke with the GP who said to call and ambulance. When on the phone to the ambulance she starts yelling she has chest pain. Two ambulances were called. The paramedic was rude with my mother for wasting time calling an ambulance for my grandfather, who subsequently died at home on the floor several hours later. My grandmother then decides she has no pain and is fine, once they had left him alone.

When he died, I came a bit later than others as I had to take the children to school and explain to them what had happened (and warn the school), two of my children have additional needs so I needed to deal with them first. When I entered I was immediately met with my grandmother shouting that one was was paying her attention. I was at that moment hugging her and a neighbour holding her tea. She complained throughout the day and subsequent days that she was not getting enough attention and she was a widow now. She did the say on the day of my grandmothers funeral when people had made too much fuss of a dead woman.

She accuses others of hurting her frequently, she did this both before and after my grandfather died. She often accused him of hurting her and hated it when he pointed out she had done these things to herself she would rage at everyone. She does the same now, she has accused several family members, the carers, nurses and other visitors of hitting her, throwing her off the bed, pinching her, throwing things at her. She can tell dramatic stories of blooding gushing from her nose, which there is no evidence off. We have all caught her pinching herself at times and she has told people directly that if they don’t do what she wants than she will tell the police they hit her.

My grandmother is obsessed with food. My mother does her an online shop once a week costing around £60-90. In addition to this there are a minimum of two weekly tops up of milk, bread, eggs etc a week (even though the first shop account for this), she will in addition ask neighbours and phone people like the cleaner, gardener, hairdresser etc to get someone else she hadn’t got any of. Carers go on around 7am and along with the providing care, will make her eggs, toast, sometimes cereal etc and a flask of tea, then around 8 my father goes up, provides toast and tea again, then at 1130, she has a local cafe provide her with her lunch, which will be a main meal, usually a full booked breakfast (like a big one) and dessert, plus usually a meal for teatime like salad. Then carers come at 130, the cafe will put her stuff on a plate and bring it to her (she is in bed) and leave, so carers remove the plate (if no one has before) and bring her soup, salad, pies, a ready meal or eggs (or anything else she requests), makes more tea, My father usually calls in around 3, will make her bread with pickles ham etc or cakes etc and tea, carers come again around 5, will make her tea, sometimes bring her his salad from the cafe but with extras like soup, breadstick, cakes etc. Then my dad calls in around 6, makes tea etc. cleans up dishes from the day. Neighbour comes in around 630 with goodies (fresh bread, cakes, pasty pie etc.), other neighbour goes in around 7 and cleans up and carers come around 730 and make supper, usually bread and butter, tea etc. That is without any visits from my mother, and all the other people who always bring food (because she hasn’t eaten all day). She also has a supply of Pringles, sweets, biscuits etc around her all the time. She’s surprisingly not fat, although she did have a bowel resection (we think, although recently found out many of the medical conditions she told us she has were lies).

She soils herself a lot though and makes herself sick a lot. She does has gallstones and her extremely high fat diet probably doesn’t help that, she had never had much shame. She always used to go to the toilet with the doors open and walk around naked. She also wastes a lot of food but equally the frequency she is eating even if she isn’t finishing her meals its still a lot of food.

Nothing is ever good enough either. If we go anywhere people pick her stuff up. My mother goes to the market and gets bag fulls of stuff, sweets, fresh cakes, cheese, cockles, pasties, pasty pie, bread, ham etc and we walk in and show her everything and she starts getting upset and she wanted a Chelsea bun, she hadn’t known we were going or asked for one, my mother had asked about one but she doesn’t like them “spicy” whatever that means and the ones in the market were “spicy” so mu mum didn’t get one. But every situation is like that, its never thanks for getting this for me, its always complaint that it is not enough. Same when we go to M&S, whatever we get isn’t enough or right, she has no issue eating the things we get, just not enough or everything she wants. My mother is a wheelchair user, so any task is difficult for her at the best of times but nothing is good enough.

We went away on holiday with my parents, a few days before she calls an ambulance and says she has chest pain (she has done this several times) and they ended up sending her in. We spoke with SW and carrier who said go anyway, which we did, it was literally an hour away in a cottage. She got discharged, we called and asked what we should do and they said it was fine hospital had already spoken with carers etc. and all would be fine. Well ambulance transport took her home and out her in chair, which is perfectly adequate but she prefers to be in bed. She was Brough home at 12:50, carers came at 1:30, in that time she called neighbours at work several times, called carers and then called GP surgery who called my mum and complained that she had left her unattended all day and in a unsafe situation. Frankly they know better than anyone my mothers health situation and I am unsure why it was so unsafe. She called people in tears saying she was so dehydrated and not had anything to eat or drink since the night before and she felt faint. My mother is obviously very upset and ended up cutting the weekend short to come home because she felt everyone was judging her.

Money is often key to her manipulation, she will buy people with offering money to them, she will call up people like her gardener and offer him money to come make her a cup of tea because she hasn’t had one all day, which given the amount of care visits and visit from my parents and her neighbours is clearly a lie. She will tell us that the hairdresser is now charging £50 a visit, which she makes cheques out to on a weekly basis, then when she got upset that the hairdresser also went to a neighbour that she doesn’t like, she called up the neighbour and told her the hairdresser had stolen a significant amount of cash from her, when the hairdresser found out she was extremely upset and refused to go back, when she spoke about it later she has she has never been given one cheque as was really upset to hear that my grandmother had said she was charging so much, let alone writing cheques.

New hairdresser turned up, no idea where from, my grandmother “can't remember” and changes £30 for not even washing her hair. Same with cleaner, who just turned up and again she can’t remember where from. We have seen no evidence of any cleaning at the bungalow. Neighbours were previously doing this for free. At Christmas she seemed to have assembly a very large pile of chocolates and second hand gifts, she “can’t remember” where these came form, only that they were “very expensive”.

She had very frequently lost large sums of money, several hundred pounds a time. She spending both in cash and on card is substantial. She often says she doesn’t know where the Money has gone. She has several times told us carers have taken her card or taken cash, or neighbours, family member etc. Sometimes money turns up and sometimes it doesn’t, we often find money stuffed in various places. Places that she apparently can’t get to.

She has several times gotten herself in messes by cancelling cheques or direct debits for things she doesn’t want to pay, like council tax or my grandfathers funeral, she has merged bank accounts and then moved money around so she has ended up in overdraft and payments declined. She will say things like she must have had all her money stolen, blamed carers for taking her card and then later we call bank and find out she has moved the money herself.

My mother has extremely poor health herself, she has several conditions such and lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, osteoporosis, she currently got several spinal fractures herself and her health is massively declining with all that she is having to do for my grandmother.

All over Christmas there was drama. She has promised she would go into respite over Christmas but the refused when it was offered. Every Christmas has been a nightmare, she has refused to come to anyones house and wants people there all day and all the neighbours in for drinks etc etc. most neighbours now give her a wide birth these days after her behaviour escalating after my grandfathers death, I have 4 children, two of which has additional needs, and Christmas is a really difficult and sensitively managed situation for us as it is. This year she ordered 2 Christmas diners from her cafe on Christmas Eve with puddings and another meal, she has a local church deliver another Christmas dinner, we provided her with one, the neighbours like family also made her one, plus others including us brought desserts and other foods, and she ordered a turkey. Of course, she is telling everyone that she didn’t have anything to eat at Christmas and saw no one, we did visit but I kept the visit short, mostly has my kids were really not coping my Christmas afternoon, I spent an hour but my kids only lasted 20 minutes (my husband took them home). I guess I should add we all live doors away from each other.

The last few days its blown up again that she has no money, she is telling people she needs to wrote cheques, which have bounced, she has no cash, over £200 gone within 24 hours, she is accusing the cleaner and hairdresser (different one that admits she charges 30 and doesn’t even wash her hair), nurse is calling SW (which isn’t much help as she works part time and thus far hasn’t gone anything other than tell us she doesn’t have dementia so its all down to her). My dad send the cleaner home and said they would be contacting the police.

The thing is, I don’t think much of the cleaner or the hairdresser but I don’t think they have stolen, I think this is more games. My mother is beside herself upset as usual and there is drama after drama everyday over Christmas and like I say its taken a massive toll of my mothers health.

It doesn’t feel like there is anything to do, I’m just at a loss really. I feel my parents need to pull away and leave her deal with this (she apparently has been assessed twice as mental competent), but they are not like that. My grandmother is frankly very rude and cruel to my mum. Makes comments all the time about her being stupid and fat etc. thats he can’t do anything right and critiques her food etc. (my mum has made her a meal most days over Christmas), she just horrid to her. Will forget her birthday etc and than on the same day make a massive deal out of a carers birthday and given them £50 and send my mum to buy wine and flowers etc. my mum spends so much time upset and trying to do anything to get acceptance from my grandmother. Its really sad and I’m not sure what I can do anymore.

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Purplewithred · 03/01/2020 14:05

Oh heck how awful for you all. Your poor mum.

Your grandmother is a poisonous cow, I hope you dont feel you owe her anything or need to spend any time with her.

Can you concentrate your energies on supporting your mum? I assume nobody has access to your grandmothers bank account but if she is buying all that food where is the money for that coming from?

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Ohfrigginghellers · 03/01/2020 14:14

Could this woman have dementia? Dementia is a disease of the brain and can turn people nasty.

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Someonesayroadtrip · 03/01/2020 14:21

I very much separated myself from her many months ago. I go occasionally but only with others as I don't trust her. She told my kids I wasn't nasty and wasn't a good granddaughter which they just got upset and confused by.

That's what I do. I used to go a lot to try and relieve stress on my patents but no matter how much anyone does it's not enough anyway.

She has pension my mum withdraws every week, around £260. Plus a few hundred a month into a bank account.,it used to have about 15,000 in it but a year later is bad around 4000 i think, of course it may all be gone now given things are bouncing now or she may have just moved the accounts again.

My dad has some access to the account I think, not fully sure though, they know she was overdrawn as they went to purchase her food order online and it declined so they were able to call and get a current amount and it showed as overdrawn.


As for dementia, she has been assessed twice for it and shows no signs apparently. It's not really new behaviour it's just escalated since my grandfathers death. She's always been like this to an extent just now she is so dependent on my parents it's much worse. I think it's mental health related though, possibly a personality disorder but I don't know much about it.

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Someonesayroadtrip · 03/01/2020 14:21

She orders food over the food.

She also gives her card to people and writes cheques.

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WhoisitnowRalph · 03/01/2020 14:31

Bloody hell. My DM has descended into Alzheimer's dementia but she is lovely - things have been terrible over Christmas with her falling (often mid-poo, many-a code brown for me this festive period), paramedics attending, wandering and falling and going off radar etc, but she is a dream compared to to your GM!

You say it has been confirmed that she doesn't have dementia and has mental capacity. I don't suppose anyone has POA? Is it her word that she doesn't have dementia, or that of a professional? Surely no-one is naturally this awful...

If she is responsible for her own actions, it may be time to step away and leave her to paid carers. It seems terrible, but nobody has to put up with abuse and manipulation. Not even family.

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WhoisitnowRalph · 03/01/2020 14:32

Oh sorry cross posted. She sounds exhausting...

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apacketofcrisps · 03/01/2020 14:36

Your mother needs to disengage and prioritise her own health.

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PurpleFrames · 03/01/2020 14:37

Dont usually read posts like this but I couldn't believe what your poo family has been going through.

Please take a step back and concentrate on your immediate family if you can. I'd be worried this behaviour will result in you all getting burnt out...

Take care x

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Someonesayroadtrip · 03/01/2020 14:54

Yes two different professionals assessed her. I honestly think there is something going on. But SW says mental health team won't assess for anything else. I know it's sounds dramatic but I really think she will out live my mum. There is another daughter who cut contact from all of us a little over a year ago.

SW has told my parents to step back but they don't. But then it's my mum the carers and everyone else calls whenever there is a problem.

I feel like the cold hearted bitch of the family but my mum will struggle and go out to buy extra bread, milk, eggs etc at her beck and call but 1. I have no idea how she goes through so much food 2. Surely carers can pick up odd bits and 3. She won't die without bread or milk or one day.

I actually think it's an abuser cycle, my mum is desperate to please her and get any sort of recognition that she will kill herself to do it.

It's hard as I feel it's a power war between me/my kids and my grandmother. My kids absolutely adore my mum. My eldest with is autistic with ADHD but is actually great with my mum. He misses her but there are so many dramas he needs to keep his distance as I don't want him to be another task or problem.

My kids have been difficult over Christmas, everyone is ill too ( I have a ear infection), it's my birthday on the weekend so usually they would babysit but I don't want to add to her stress, even though she lives for the kids. She absolutely loves having them and gets weirdly really depressed if she doesn't see them. It's so hard to know what to do for the best.

My mum dreads telling he what my grandmother has done now because it's like a broken record or me telling her to pull away.

The more I offer to help my mum, like take her places etc the more she ends up seeing my grandmother more as she will buy her more stuff (then She will ask for more) and therefore she visits more and more. It's just crazy. She will ask my mum to do things that are physically impossible for her (like bending/reaching/carrying tasks) then tell her it's because she's too fat that she can't, rather than because she's physically crippled (like she has significant curvature of the spine, she's completely hunched over and lost about half a foot in height).

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reefedsail · 03/01/2020 14:55

Your mother needs to let Social Services know that she can't care for her mother due to her own health.

Social care will do an assessment and hopefully the outcome will be residential nursing care.

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reefedsail · 03/01/2020 14:58

X-post.

Could you find some counselling for your mum to help her to step back. As you know, the problem is being perpetuated by your mother enabling your grandmother. Unless she stops this, none of you can do anything.

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Someonesayroadtrip · 03/01/2020 15:04

My mums GP actually referred my mum for her own social worker but she was assessed and then lost in the system.

SW tells my mum to pull away but in the same breath tells her tips on how to do shopping, and to check her cupboards everyday for food to keep on top of ordering (which is always impossible with a woman that can go through 4 tins of soup a day). Part of me feels like carers take things but then she would have an awful lot of thieves and abusers if that's the case, I'm not sure it's worth their job for an occasional ton of soup or loaf of bread.

Plus so many people are involved it is just a minefield. There always Someone new she is paying. My parents tend to think all these carers and cleaners/hairdressers are taking advantage, maybe they are but it seems more likely it's just manipulating games. Any attention is sought.

The amount of times my mum has been left in tears with stuff my grandmother has said it's crazy and I just understand why sh Lewis subjecting herself to it all.


I REALLY NEED TO WRITE MORE CONCISELY! Sorry

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Someonesayroadtrip · 03/01/2020 15:07

@reefedsail - SW has done assessments and because she if of sound mind she can refuse which is what she does do. It's bonkers really. I am all for keeping people in their home and letting people make their own decisions but she might know what she is doing but it's certainly far from normal accepted behaviour. And not sustainable.

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Someonesayroadtrip · 03/01/2020 15:09

@reefedsail ... she waited months for counselling, she has depression as part of a umbrella of conditions she has. And had one appointment and that was it, she goes back on the list and is waiting for more. It's all a bit crazy really.

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Someonesayroadtrip · 03/01/2020 15:10

@WhoisitnowRalph - sorry you are going thorough that with your mum.such a cruel condition.

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reefedsail · 03/01/2020 15:20

Could you fit cameras in your grandmother's home so you can monitor what is actually going on her safety- with carers etc, but also when she is on her own? They are much less expensive than they used to be.

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DPotter · 03/01/2020 15:34

The test of mental capacity is really very low. I know of at least one elderly person, very physically frail, obvious dementia who refused all help - family, meals on wheels, carers, day centres, everything. It took a couple of years before it was possible to get them sectioned before anything could be done. It was a slow motion car crash that no one could do anything about.
Sadly this is what you are witnessing.It's awful.
Your DM could be re-assessed by SW as a carer herself, but at the end of the day no one can make her accept she has to step back.
The only things I can suggest are to request for her to be re-assessed as a carer and for you to be there so you can make such the SW knows exactly what is going on. Also encourage her to keep in contact with the grandchildren; I can totally understand they keep her going. It might also be worth making sure you have everything in place to care for your parents, eg power of attorney, wills etc. Make sure your DM knows you will not be able to provide the level of input (won't call it care) to your grandmother that she is because you have a young family and you see her abusive. Say it once, say it clearly and never mention it again. Is your DM in touch with AgeUK ? - they have local groups across the country and are a very good source of support and information.
This type of situation is awful and requires a very thick skin to be able to cope with it. No one comes away unscathed.

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DPotter · 03/01/2020 15:35

Sorry - this should read
Sadly this is what you are witnessing.It'sul.

Sadly this is what you are witnessing. It's awful.

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Someonesayroadtrip · 03/01/2020 15:51

@reefedsail - she doesn't have internet, in theory my house is weirdly positioned behind hers so might be able to piggy bank off my internet. I live on a different street but on a plot of land that was built on so my house (if there was no wall) would be at the back of theirs. But even so, she's refused this before.i wanted a ring door bell as we and my parents have them but she refused.

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Someonesayroadtrip · 03/01/2020 16:04

@DPotter we are in Wales and unfortunately the similar service here is not very helpful.

I don't think she could be a Carers as she receives pip currently, she literally can't lift a kettle as her bones are so fragile, which makes Ruhr whole situs you more absurd really. It's why I moved back and so the children had "nana" close.

My mother can walk short distances and drive, so she can pop to the post office in the car by herself and get bread. The local shop is kind and will carry things like milk to the car and she gets a neighbour or my dad to run the milk in. My dad is still working but part time. They are in their late 60s.

Mostly it needs someone to go With her though, she likes getting out as she can get stuck in a lot which I think is part of it too. But then it gets too much when demands are made for immediate "needs" too.

I did say something about me not doing the same, she was upset, but I explained she wouldn't act this way. To be fair our lives have often revolve around my parents. Our first house we bought or my husband did with an extra downstairs room for my parents to visit. Then we bought a house they could move in and even looked at selling both houses and moving in together.

Current house doesn't do any of those things, but it a few doors away instead, plus now one of my children I cannot see being able to live independently so that makes us reconsider what we can offer too. But I have a saint of a husband that would definitely do anything we can to accommodate their needs as they get older. But like I say, I feel my mum will probably die way before my 94 year old grandmother at this rate.

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Villagegreenpreservation · 03/01/2020 16:10

Didn't want to read and run. Is it in any way feasible for you with your mum to talk to your grandmother and tell her what you can and can't and will and won't do?
You speaking for your mum maybe and saying you need to change her care as your mum cannot possibly continue like this
You may struggle to get her to give financial control to you but she needs to know you will not manage any nonsense.
I so feel for you

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DPotter · 03/01/2020 16:26

Sorry Someone - have re-read my post and not sure I made myself clear. I didn't mean that you would not able to provide care and support to your parents. I meant that if your DM dies before her mother, you would not be able to provide the same input as your mother currently does for her mother, your grandmother. Sorry that really changes the tone of my post.

I would check about the definition of carer, as my Dad had a Carer's assessment (actually he had 2 as he told the SW he was coping fine the first time. My Dsis was there for the 2nd one) and he doesn't receive any benefits as a carer. AgeUK could help you here. Sometimes a sympathetic outsider can get through to people when family and friends can't.

Thinking about the situation, maybe you could try another approach. Rather than trying to solve your grandmother's situation directly, could you approach things from your DM angle? For example, I assuming with her health problems, she sees her GP regularly? Would she agree if you came with her, to discuss how caring for your grandmother is taking it's toll on her. You could then explain just how bad the situation is. One of the problems with caring for people at home is how difficult it is to co-ordinate care input, as it's easy to assume everyone else has done something so things fall through the gaps.
I actually think it would be a good idea for police involvement as the financial situation does sound very suspect.
As I said before, think slow motion car crash; you know what's going to happen but can't look away.

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Elieza · 03/01/2020 16:51

Before you do anything while she is still of sound mind can one of you get a power of attorney about her health and finances. It will save you money and hassle if she needs help one she goes dolally.

Your mum and gran both need a sw assessment. With a view to getting the gran into care somewhere.

Don’t hesitate to contact the police if any more money allegedly goes missing. More evidence that she can’t be trusted to handle her affairs.

Sounds like she has some kind of illness that makes everything have to be about her. That’s why she’s isolated herself. So people feel sorry for her and jump to help her and run about after her. Your poor mother.

Re Ring doorbell, how would she know you got this if she’s never over the door? I’d try it anyway off your bb if possible.

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Someonesayroadtrip · 03/01/2020 21:56

Thank you all so much for the support, I expected to be told to suck it up as she's so old and just muck in.

I knew what you meant, I wouldn't do what my mum is doing for my grandmother, I just mean I'm prepared to meet my mothers need, but it's on mutual terms rather than just pandering to the needs of my grandmother.

We keep having assessments and meetings. Well, we keep calling and emailing the social worker, who works 2 days a week, and she come sort every few months, but nothing actually changes. They say they have put in the biggest package of care she can have, and really she needs a care home but she refuses and no one can force it as she is "of sound mind".

We have asked for power of attorney several times, she did once agreed and then screamed bloody murder saying we were trying to take her money.

GP sees my mum fairly regularly, but nothing changes, he is concerned about my mum, she referred her for her own social work assessment but nothing came of it.

The SW Basically says that currently everything is going ok, the point us all my grandmothers care needs are met, she isn't neglected etc. That's all her role is, while my parents continue to do everything then it's no issue. While is is causing massive other problems SW doesn't see that as her problem.

I spoke with my mum earlier about everything and she was telling me my grandmother was threatening to kill herself, she does this A lot too. She even pops pills on her mouth. We have tried telling the Carers etc to make sure she takes them and not leave them with her but they don't seem to listen and she frequently has 10 or more co codamol on her tray.

We are even written letters of complaint but it gets no where.

I just think our services here in South Wales are in such a mess here that they just don't care anymore.

Just not really sure what we do.

Apparently a nurse has spoken/emailed GP and SW today about everything but we have gotten to this point before. I guess we just hope it helps. I just wish I could get my parents to understand, they feel that everyone will talk about them being bad family if they don't keep doing it all. Mind you they probably do, my grandmother tells everyone such many lies, goodness knows what they believe.

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helpfulperson · 03/01/2020 22:22

Someone said to me 'you can do your best and that is all'. You cant fix this situation, you just need to work out what you can do and do that. Someone earlier mentioned supporting your mother rather than your grandmother and i think that is sensible.

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