Are there any studies about children who are the youngest/oldest in their class and how 'well' they did in school/life?

[Shitemum]

My DD1 could start primary at just-turned 5 or could wait a year and start at nearly-6.

Is it better to wait a year or is being one of the youngest in the class an advantage in any way? I'm not worried about her adapting as she has been at nursery 6 hours a day since 2 yo and is very happy at school.
(Background: we currenty live in Spain where primary starts at 6yo but are considering moving back to the UK in 18-24 months).

[Shitemum]

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[LadyMuck]

The studies, such as they are, seem to indicate that actually being one of the oldest in the year gives a significant advantage. But it is one of just so many factors that could make a difference, I think that it is hard to say personally.

When you do come back to England she will be in the class appropriate to her age regardless of when she started school in Spain ~(unless you go to a private school). So if you came back and she had just turned 6 then she would be in Year 1, and would miss the reception year.

[SatsumaMoon]

If you are seriously thinking about moving back to the UK, I would start her at school in Spain asap as otherwise she may really struggle in her UK school - where some of the children will have been at school and thus learning to read, etc since they are barely 4 - she will have to go into a class with her year group so, for example, if you didn't send her to school before you moved back and she was 6 or so, she might be in a class with children who had already done 2 years at school....

[SatsumaMoon]

Ladymuck, it depends on when her birthday is - if she is a summer baby she would be going into Yr2 the September after her 6th birthday so would have missed Reception and Yr1

[Shitemum]

Thanks, I'm a bit confused about what reception is. Is it the last year of nursery or the first year of primary?
We would be moving to Scotland, don't know if it's the same there. Her birthday is the end of september and according to the info on the local council website she could start P1 (Yr1) in August 2008, just before she turns 5 or the following year just before she turns 6. She's 4.3 now and starting to learn to write at nursery. (It's more of a pre-school with structured ativities and projects).
In fact since we aren't planning on moving til 2009 the question is really whether to put her in P1/Yr1 at nearly 6yo where she would be one of the oldest or straight into P2/Yr2 where she would be one of the youngest.
Sorry, it's a bit confusing...

[Shitemum]

Actually, re-reading my own last post it seems obvious that she would be better off as a nearly 6yo in P1, especially from the point of view of reading and writing and also from the point of view of starting at the same time as everyone else instead of having to fit into an already established group.

[whenachildisbob]

SM - My ds is a September birthday and just started P1 this August. That puts him in the middle of his year group. The Scottish system is totally different to the English system.

There are 2 children in his class with Jan/Feb birthdays who were kept back and so just about to turn 6. There is another Feb child who will just be about to turn5, so a huge difference in ages.

It tends to be only Jan/Feb children who start a year later if requested. I know Nov and Dec are entitled too, but it really is very unusual unless there is a specific concern about the child's ability to cope.

The oldest children in Scottish schools are March birthdays, the youngest are February.

Unlike the English system which starts children at potentially the day after they turn 4, in Scotland, even the youngest must be at least 4.5 years old and 6 months or so can make a huge difference IME.

When is your dd's birthday? Am I reading it right as August? It will be very unlikely that she will be allowed to start later than her peers unless recommended by say an Ed Psych if there are learning or social difficulties for example. IT was suggested to us briefly for ds, but in the end it was the right thing to start him as he turned five, rather than have him stay on playing for another year at nursery.

[Shitemum]

Can anyone add anything? Thanks!

[whenachildisbob]

Reception doesn't exist in Scotland - it's part of the English system.

[whenachildisbob]

There's a brief summary of the scottish system here:

www.mumsnet.com/bigissues/education.html

The Scottish mumsnetters have had to fight for years to get it as no one seemed to have noticed that the English system is totally different.

Whereabouts are you moving to btw? I'm in Stirlingshire, but originally from Glasgow.

[Shitemum]

whenachildisbob - thanks, x-posted.
Her birthday is end of Sept. Since we definately won't be moving this year and it's too late anyway since applications had to be in by mid-december then she will be 5.11 yo if she starts primary in August 2009.
Would they let me start her in P1 or would they push me to put her in P2? It would be a bit of a shock, what with changing country at the same time. (Her English is native level btw, I have no worries there).

[marchbirthday]

Can DD go to a school where they learn English or just Spanish. If DD does not go to school where will she be? I would go with what is right in Spain, the UK choice will be so different but if she has developed skills such as making friends and all that communication jargon, which sounds complicated but just comes from mingling - she'll do ok wherever.

[Shitemum]

Edinburgh, I'm from there originally.
Thanks for the link! ( refrains from making 'why is everything English-biased?' type comment )

[NAB3wishesfor2008]

My DD is the joint youngest in her class and also one of only 3 children who knew their keys word within the first month. (Actually she knew all hers before she started school but it was only then that we found out about the others.)

In her case her birth date is irrelvant as she is extremely bright.

[NAB3wishesfor2008]

My point is it must have a lot to do with the child's ability and personality as well as their birthday as to how well they do at a certain level.

[Flllightattendant]

I'm a dismal failure and I was old for my year (sept. 2nd)
But I was very clever and ahead of the class for much of primary school at least. I gave up trying in secondary and got depressed instead.
Nothing to do with age, probably...

[marchbirthday]

My DS moved school and dropped a year - August birthday. It was the right thing for him - because he repeated the year academically and came out with good GCSEs etc, but for a while there I did have to keep explaining to bodies why he had dropped a year, incuding child benefit people when he was still at college at 18 1/2. So unless there is a real academic/education need I would let her go into the right school year - her multi-lingual skills are likely to mean she'll progress quickly.

[whenachildisbob]

I think you would have to get some kind of communication going between her current preschool and the prospective primary.

In P1, ds has reading books, is writing and doing basic numeracy, but there's also a lot of playing in the play house, games, arts and crafts, work on the computer etc. In P2 there is more work in the classroom from what I can tell, but I don't have any experience of that yet

It's very different from his council nursery which was mainly games and crafts and turn taking.

You would need to find out how comparable the primary curriculum is with what your dd has been doing. Every school is different - there is no National Currliculum in Scotland - it's very child led. There is no national assessment scheme as such.

I think it would be down to the school and yourselves to decide if P2 would be too much, or whether she would only be dealing with the issues of changing country. There's really not a huge difference between P1 and 2 abilities judging from the writing in some of ds' P2 Xmas cards this year

She wouldn't be the youngest in P2 because of the age cut off - she would be bang in the middle (like my ds ).

[Shitemum]

marchbirthday - Now she's goes to a Spanish-speaking, Spanish nursery. She speaks English at home and her English is still better than her Spanish, tho Spanish is catching up. If she didnt go to nursery here she'd be at home with me.
By time we move to Scotland she will be 5 yo so would have to go to school by law (?). She will 'graduate' from her nursery here in June 2009, she'll be 5.9 yo then. We would move to Scotland during that summer and would have to have applied for her school place in Scotland the December before, from what i can make out. I don't know if we can even do that if we are not resident there yet. What happens with immigrant kids who turn up during the school year? Are they just allocated a place anywhere?

[pinetreedog]

there has been at least one recent one in Scotland that showed that the very youngest boys have a tendency to lag behind academically throughout their school lives.

Can't remember all the ins and outs but that was the bones of it.

[whenachildisbob]

Unless your school is really really oversubscribed, there will be a place for your dd at the school closest to you. But it would be worth you phoning around before hand and speak to the headteacher personally once you know roughly where you're going to stay.

There are a lot of Edinburgh Mnetters who would know more than I do about the area.

I live in the sticks and still had a choice of 2 primaries for ds. There are plenty of folks who move in a week or so before school starts and need a place straight away, so you won't be unusual if it comes to a last minute decision. AFAIK it's at the discretion of the head to decide.

[Shitemum]

Have to go, DP has had enough of looking after the DDs!
DD1 says 'He has to deal with both of us!'

Thanks for answers, will reply later.

Whenachildisbob - i've fnaly twigged that she wont be the youngest because the cut off dates start the previous spring - doh!

[Starsky]

Pinetreedog - As Mum to a ds with a birthday right at the end of February, I would be really interested in readying about the study that you mentioned. Do you know if there is a link to it?

[Shitemum]

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[Shitemum]

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