School attendance fines

[Christinewall1]

I took my children out of school last year for a week, this was not authorised by the School but they were notified. On our return we received a fine for both of our children and we were both sent letters regarding the fines (we live in the same house and are married). I contacted the School regarding the fine as there was no other number on the letter and it was signed by our head teacher. The receptionist told me to pay the time as the council would never get back to us within the time allowed to pay. We paid within the required time, but received a letter to say we hadn't paid. My Husband made contact proving we had paid, it came out that we had paid once for each child rather than twice, which we were unaware of. Once we realised this we offered to pay the outstanding amount but were told it was to late (Oct 2018. We have ben notified of a magistrates court date next week, 13 days after we received the Court papers. I contacted the only number on the letter which was the legal time, they said they couldn't help as conflict of interest, only after getting upset did they outline the possibilities of what would happen. I feel at a disadvantage as I cannot pay for legal advice as suggested in my Court papers, and citizens advice are not much help at all. I explained the circumstance behind the fine and did ask did he not think it was odd I only paid half the fine rather than all???. The question is.... If I attend court I will have to pay £150.00 per child for court costs, if I do not attend Court I would need to plead guilty but you can explain the circumstances behind this? I feel at a complete disadvantage, I've never attended court in my life or had experience of any of the above and they have a whole legal time to advise them? Any advice would be helpful, googled loads but no help at all. Thanks

[Somethingsmellsnice]

Personally, I would pay the amount of the fine immediately. If no-one will take that payment now then get details of who is refusing it and why.

Then I would go to court and plead my case that it is clear that is an error as you have very obviously paid one lot of fines within the correct time.

I would then say that as soon as you were aware that there were in fact two lots you have tried to pay. (or indeed have paid if they will take payment).

I would say that you attempted to get this all sorted prior to it coming to court but no one would deal with you. In the circumstances you feel it would not be equitable (fair) for you to have to pay the costs as well.

You may get someone take pity on you because it is clear you have paid and attempted to pay.

[Tolleshunt]

No advice, sorry, but Something's advice sounds spot on.

Am just appalled, as a mother of a child who will be starting school in September, that this is even a thing. Being taken to court about fines for missing school?! When you have paid one lot already?! What kind of mad, draconian nonsense is this?

[Hersetta427]

Personally I would pay whatever it now takes to make it go away. I thought it was common knowledge that fines are per parent per child which is why you both received letters to pay. Why Did you think you both received letters to pay fines but only had to pay one of them - surely a 30 second google would have given you the answer you needed?

[SassitudeandSparkle]

The fine is per parent per child so yes, two lots of fines per child. Very easily found on Google.

It's not mad, draconian nonsense it's the law.

If pleading guilty means a cheaper option in court fees on top of the outstanding fine I'd be leaning towards that option, OP.

[Tolleshunt]

It may well be the law, but that doesn't mean it isn't also draconian. In fact, the very definition of draconian relates to laws.

[prh47bridge]

It is the same "mad draconian" nonsense that says if you are caught by two speed cameras on the same day you will pay two fines. It isn't enough to pay one. In exactly the same way, two offences have been committed and therefore there are two fines to pay.

*Christinewall1" - Because you didn't pay within 21 days the fine doubled. Because you didn't pay within 28 days the council can take it to court. You could face a much higher penalty.

I would suggest contacting the council to see if you can settle before this gets to court, pointing out to them that you were confused by the paperwork and thought there was only one fine to pay. If that fails, I would suggest attending the court, pleading guilty, explaining that you were confused by the paperwork so only paid one fine and that, by the time you realised there were two fines, it was too late and the council wouldn't accept your payment.

[Tolleshunt]

It's just so OTT, though. Not a good, or proportionate use of taxpayers money IMO.

[HolesinTheSoles]

I would have no idea it was a fine per parent per child and wouldn't have googled it. They should have made it clear in the letter.

[WhyAmIPayingFees]

That this system exists at all is mad, draconian nonsense. Paying it all asap, as with most fines, is a good plan, as I found out with the London Congestion charge to my cost. I had no idea that both parents were fined. Good grief.

[SassitudeandSparkle]

They each had a letter for each child, they asked the school and the school told them to pay - but they only paid one unfortunately.

Without seeing the letter we can't really say why the OP thought only one letter per child applied because we don't have the wording. Our local council has a leaflet that makes it very clear that both parents are fined and the consequences if you don't pay on time.

What did you decide in the end, OP?

[TalkinPeece]

If you want the state to educate your child without fees
you have to accept its rules
simple

[ASauvignonADay]

Not a good, or proportionate use of taxpayers money IMO
Seems a waste of taxpayers money to take your child out of school during a week that taxpayers have 'paid' for.

[prh47bridge]

That this system exists at all is mad, draconian nonsense

The system exists to reduce absence levels. It has worked. Whilst absence levels are rising a little at the moment, they are significantly lower than they were before the fines were introduced. The proportion of children who are persistent absentees (missing 10% or more of the school year) has almost halved. So no, not mad, draconian nonsense.

Not a good, or proportionate use of taxpayers money IMO

No taxpayers money is used on this. The fines go to the LA and more than cover the costs involved.

[WhyAmIPayingFees]

Several parents on here seem very happy to accept an abusive intrusion of the state into family life. I am not and stand by the characterisation of the system of fining as mad draconian nonsense. I think I held the record for non attendance in my school 6th form and the extensive private study I did in that time was what got me into
Cambridge. It was better than being beaten up on the narrow path to my school. It is for families to manage their kids’ attendance, not the state.The problem now arises from the change in the system a few years ago when all discretion for heads was removed by the over controlling state. They used to be able to exercise their discretion and grant leave much more easily for an exceptional trip or other time off. That was a thousand times better than the intrusion into family life now.

[TalkinPeece]

Several parents on here seem very happy to accept an abusive intrusion of the state into family life.
The State is expected to pick up the pieces when families fall apart
why should it not have the right to do some prevention as well as the responsibility to cure?

[SassitudeandSparkle]

I'm extremely happy to use the state education system and for me, that comes with rules that I stick by so yes, very happy indeed

These fines are for unauthorised absence - holidays - not sickness absence. Completely different.

[Soontobe60]

Why am I, you can't have it both ways. Either you use the state system to educate your children, and all that entails (fines and all), or you opt out and go private.
Attendance in school, or lack of, is a real issue for many children. Improving lives of children, through education, is vital for society. Unfortunately there are many parents that think they can do whatever they want because they have the money to do so, and have little regard to the impact not being in school may have to a child. Yes, the state does have some legislation that could be seen as overbearing, but they are there for the benefit of children, to their parents. The other extreme of this could be where parents can now be prosecuted for hitting their child. Some parents still think a quick slap won't do any harm and who are the state to tell them otherwise.