a quick grrrr about grid multiplication system

[mimsum]

ds1 (Y5) had maths homework last night - multiplying 3 and 4 figure numbers together. He had to do it using the grid multiplication system - and it took forever . His mental arithmetic is excellent so he had no problems actually doing the calculations, but it's just so ludicrously long-winded. To multiply two 3 figure numbers you have to do 9 separate calculations then you have to add all the columns up to get the right answer - it's just adding in a whole lot more scope for error. Before any teachers jump on me and tell me what a good way it is, I know it helps children understand they're dealing with hundreds, tens and units, but ds1 has no problem with the concept and we can both think of many, many other things he would rather have been doing with his time last night .... Why can't teachers differentiate more - and use different systems for children of differing ability?

[BishyBarneyBee]

your last sentence hits the nail on the head. Some teachers will default to the system that works for most of the children - esp. if it helps those that have trouble conceptualising numbers - however those that can and do suffer a bit.

My sister always reassures me by saying that a lot of adult life is spent doingthings you don't want to do that are dull (e.g. housework, filing,) and it is good practice for that!

[NoodleStroodle]

I'm with mimsmum - the scope for error is massive this way and if DS does a long multiplication sum I can see where he has gone wrong

[babygrand]

I agree - this system is nuts. It takes forever, and if they can do the sums the conventional way, why make them try a different way?

[BishyBarneyBee]

I think the idea is (as MT says) they realise the actual value of the numbers. It has a sound base (I think it is copied from the Dutch system where the overall mathematical standards on leaving school far exceed ours.)

My school did an open evening on it which was fantastic. I had already been blundering in and taking over my son's maths work with the good old H T U columns until I understood the system.

I prefer it, but am a bit of a maths doofus.

[roisin]

Up until recently I was a big fan of the way Maths is now taught in primary schools - they seem to develop a really sound concept of number.

But there seems to be a point at which they should be moving on to the quicker methods, and speeding up and it doesn't happen. I too feel this about grid multiplication and my yr5 ds1.

It's time he was taught a method that would speed him up a bit.

[meandmyflyingmachine]

I like it.

And he'll have to do it at secondary school to BTW...

[aintnomountainhighenough]

My dd hasn't even started school but I have seen a little bit about this. Sorry to say this but I didn't learn it this way, I learnt the old way and have no problem whatsoever with understanding numbers. Again sorry to say but it seems that these methods have been introduced because they help the lower ability students to understand. Agree with the OP teachers need to differentiate between abilities and move the more able children to the quicker methods sooner.

[singersgirl]

DS1, 8 and in Y4, was doing division via the chunking method today, and though he understood it very well, it took SO long, compared to the simple short division method we learned in school. He says his teachers have told them not to listen to any parents who say they know another way....

[AttilaTheMum]

There's a new numeracy strategy coming in soon.......

[cece]

Attila the new startegy isn't that different although they hae brought some of the objectives forwards to an earlier year, so shorter methods of x and / are introduced in year 5 for instance.

[katelyle]

The problem we found was that dd struggled so badly with maths that she just wasn't capable of understanding the underlying concepts in year 4 and 5. So these methods which worked so well with more mathematically able children were a disaster for her. She diddn't gain any understanding and was expected to use a method which had huge capacity for making mistakes along the way. The mathematical penny dropped in year 6 and she is now doing very well, but in year 4 she really needed to learn strategies that got her the right answer - she wasn't ready for uderstanding!

[ShrinkingViolet]

can anyone point me to where I can learn exactly what "chunking" and "partitioning" are and how they work - DD1 is so far beyond all this (and didn't do it the way she was taught anyway from the sound of things ) but I could do with finding out how things are being doen in school, so that if/when DD2 goes back, she at least knows how everyone else has been doing things.

[cece]

someone maybe able to provide a proper link

www.standards.dfes.gov.uk/primaryframeworks/d ownloads/PDF/PFMathsbyyearalt.pdf

[cece]

this may work better

www.standards.dfes.gov.uk/primaryframeworks /mathematics/learningobjectives/resources/

[bookwormmum]

I did my maths gcse again a couple of years ago and the fusty old concepts I'd failed to grasp at primary school were all gone in favour of new ones. Long division is different as well. Maths is about 'showing the workings' which does make it tedious for quicker children to plough through if they've already done the answer in their heads. It's good practice for secondary school though when he comes to science lessons as presumably you still have to note the exact process, methodology, ingredients and expectations of experiments? . Does your school run parent workshops in the new methods? They can be very helpful to know why they're used.

I like the corralation of maths questions with filing .

[Hallgerda]

Gosh - am I the only rebel who's shown her children how to do it the way I know and love? I totally agree with cat64 about the grid method being dreadful for the disorganized. DS3 fits that category, and he's got much better at maths since I showed him a way that would work for him. I also agree with katelyle that there's nothing wrong with being able to do something before you understand it fully.

Would your children get their work marked wrong if they did it "your" way rather than the teacher's and got the right answer? Or have you not tried that approach?

[juuule]

No. You are not the only one As someone else said I was shown the 'old' way and I don't have any difficulty understanding numbers. I, too, think the new methods are a bit faffy.

[mimsum]

I do know why they're used and I can see they can help some children grasp the concept more easily - but it clicked for ds1 yonks ago and now he's just getting frustrated that it takes so long. He's also another disorganised one, so one silly mistake can send him off in completely the wrong direction. With division we did end up telling him to ignore what his teacher was saying because the 'chunking' was confusing him much more - as well as taking half a page to do one simple sum ... it took him about 10 seconds to understand the 'old' way as well as drastically cutting the time it took to complete his work.

Thankfully the school he's going to in September doesn't do Y6 SATs so he won't get marked down for not showing all the silly workings

[spykid]

chdn need to know there are methods useful nfor checking themselves and the grid is useful for this

i find it long winded and if chdn prefer other methods then this should be encouraged

however they should be shown this method as an option and for understanding

[bookwormmum]

Must admit the numberlines and hopping to the number you want, confused me at first - I thought that's what your fingers were for, to count on .

[Housemum]

GRRRRRRRR indeed! DD1 is 14 and still has to do it this way - she is in the top maths set fgs! I can't imagine doing a quick calcualtion at work and having to sit down and draw grids - OK I suppose no-one now actually would bother but I still use my brain rather than getting a calculator for simple stuff. DD1 actually used to know how to do the "old-fashioned" way but it has been drummed out of her....