Friend has had her childs school place withdrawn, advice please.

[kimi]

A friend of mine has two children, a daughter in year six and a son who is due to go in to reception this year, she applied for and was given place at the school her DD is in, this was her first choice. Now the place has been taken away as her DD will have left the school and gone to high school by the time her DS starts reception and so he will not have siblings there (They live outside the catchment area).
She has no idea where her DS will be going, he keeps asking what school am I going to mummy, and she so badly wants him in her 1st choice school where her DD has been for the last 7 years. Can a place be withdrawn and how does she go about appealing?

Anyone been in this situation?

[mumto3boys]

was it withdrawn as they had allocated it thinking that the child would have a sibling there come september?

if so, someone has made a mistake and they are trying to rectify it. i think in these circumstances it has to be done in a 'reasonable time frame' . i knew of a school that did this to more than one child one year but withdrew the places within 24 hours of the letters being received. none of the appeals were upheld

how long was it from the letters going out and the place being withdrawn?

if its more that a few days i would say this is unreasonable and appeal. also, has this meant that the child has missed out on a place elsewhere that shoudl have been allocated? if so, they should appeal for that school too on the grounds that the places were given out wrongly.

what an awful situation!

[kimi]

When she applied she said that DS had a sister in year 6, so I think they would have worked out she will be going in July.
It was at least 4 weeks before the place was withdrawn. She is frantic

[kimi]

Should add her DS goes to the link up nursery at the school and has been so looking forward to going to "big boy school" as his sister has always been there all his social connections are there. Poor little boy.

[mumto3boys]

well to be honest i think 4 weeks goes beyond reasonable. have they withdrawn in writing? and did they give a reason?

I think she needs to write to the admissions authority and ask for the reasons in writing. then appeal. if they made a mistake in the first place they should have noticed within four weeks - also bearing in mind the places are often sorted a while before the the letters are sent.

did she put any other choices down on her form? as if she missed out on those as she was offered this school, then they should be looking at those schools for him. if he has missed out on those because of this mistake, then that is their fault and he should be offered a place

[mumto3boys]

the school should always check dates of births of siblings anyway. in no way is your friend at fault here

[kimi]

They did withdraw it in writing stating that he would not have siblings at the school at the time he started.
It would seem that she did not put any other choices (bit silly) as she thought it was a given that he would go to this school.
He has all his friends going here, He is a shy little boy, his speech is a little on the slow side (waiting for speech therapy) and he is still not happy using a toilet, so the thought of him having to go to a school where he knows no one is heartbreaking.

[lisad123]

I would certainly appeal it. Its not fair to do that to parents. Get her to ring placement team on monday and explain it all. Good luck

[AttilaTheMum]

She can ask the head to write a letter supporting her case, especially if he has social/medical reasons for going to this school - our head has recently done this for two mums whose younger children missed out on places because their sibling was at the linked junior school, not still at the infant school.

[pooka]

How terrible. But does the admissions policy not make it clear that siblings have to still be at the school. Ours does. If it wasn't made clear, then putting only one school on the admissions form more understandable as she assumed he would be top of the queue.

It sounds heartbreaking. Good advice here though - it definitely seems like they have not given reasonable notice, particularly since there is so much "horsetrading" in the first couple of weeks after places are allocated and she would have had a better chance at getting in at another school at that time.

At the same time, writing as someone whose dd did not get into her first choice school (she is eldest child) I would have been rather cross if she didn't get in because a place had gone to another child with no attending sibling.

[kimi]

She did call them up and they seem very set on not giving her the place back but she does not know how to go about appealing. I have been looking up the ombudsmen for schools, but wondered if anyone else had gone through this.

I feel so sorry for her, and for her little DS.
Thank you both, I will tell her to start putting things in writing.

[kimi]

Thank you attila and pooka, I must type faster

[kimi]

I did tell her to go see the head and ask if there was anything he could do, Although he is leaving at the end of term also.

We were very lucky as DS1 is off to high school this year and we got our first choice of school, they have also questioned her DDs high school place, saying she did not submit the forms in time, when she knows she did as her mother dropped them off herself!!!!!

[mumto3boys]

have they not sent her the appeal papers? they should send a refusal letter and the appeals procedure. sounds like someone knows they have mucked up badly here.

did she give the older child as a sibling and give the correct date of birth? the school / admissions authority should have checked, after all most admissions people know a year group just by looking at a date of birth.

altho if she didn't put any other schools dwn, she would be in the same boat anyway if they had done it correctly, but in the last 4 weeks she has probably missed out on other schools. something which i would put in the appeal

[kimi]

She has not been sent any appeal forms as far as I know, I will check this with her tomorrow when I tell her what the mumsnet gurus have advised.

Do you think she shouls contact the local MP?
She did fill in the right dates on the forms.
As far as I remember when I applied for DS2s place I had to put DS1s date of birth and what year he was in.

It really is a mess.
I don't know how best to help her.

[pooka]

Crikey yes - the first 4 weeks after places are allocated there is a lot of shuffling, and she hasn;t had the opportunity to find any other places.
The letter should have given details on how to appeal. Here, if it's a foundation school you appeal direct to the school. Otherwise it's the Local Education Authority.
I think this is appalling. God - what she must have felt when she opened the letter.
I really think that it should be made clearer at admissions time about sibling status. I do know of someone here who assumed that they'd get a place, but didn't. They also didn't put down any other options and were allocated a school by the LEA. They have no chance at appeal because the rules were followed. In your friend's case though the error that has been made has effectively prejudiced her making alternative arrangements for her ds. It really does sound like they've acted unreasonably. Definitely appeal.

[pipsqueak]

if teh class is upto 30 she will stand very litte chance at appeal

[kimi]

She is heartbroken, she works full time and so her mum and dad (who live near the school) are her child care.
Her DPs mum and dad also live close to the school, and as I said her DS has been going to the nursery there for the past 2 years.

I don't think she knows what any of the other schools are like.

[pooka]

I think the first thing to do is to talk to the head and ask whether they would contest an appeal - they may decide not to, you never know.
She should also talk to the LEA and ask for appeal forms and an explanation of what went wrong/why/the timescale.
Would the pre-school support her appeal (grounds of speech delay/social needs of ds).
Write a letter to the Education Committee at the council?
Try and get a Plan B organised - visit other schools with places and see whether they have places?

God this is bringing back how I felt when we got our letter. Thankfully dd has a place at another good school, but she won't be going to the school where she currently attends pre-school. Makes me want to cry, but I am not appealing as have no grounds to appeal. Hate hate hate the idea of her starting school on her own, without the friends she has made at pre-school.

[pooka]

I think if there has been maladministration then the class size being restricted to 30 doesn't matter at appeal. What I mean by that is that you can have a class of 32, 33 whatever, but the school has to employ additional staff to keep the pupil:staff ratio within the limit of 1:30.
At my local school one of the classes has 31 pupils. 1 teacher and 2 teaching assistants as opposed to 1 TA.

[CarGirl]

our appeals have been and gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It does sound like the council have made a huge c* up and are tring to get out of it (very badly)

[pooka]

OUr appeals aren't until June I think. But then that's only weeks away!

[kimi]

Oh pooka I am sure your DD will soon make friends.
I am sure my friends son will too, but he is so shy, and over the years he has got to know the teachers from going in and out of nursery and to school functions.

DS2 was well known by the teachers as he had been taking DS1 to and from school with me for 4 years and so when the big day came he was happy to go off to "proper school" even though only 2 other children from his nursery were going there too.

God this is a mine field.

[wheresthehamster]

By putting a sibling's name on the form it implies you are applying for a place under that rule.

If subsequently it turns out you have 'lied' (albeit unwittingly) then you are being treated the same as those people who give a false address and then have their place retracted when they are found out.

I hope she gets a sympathetic hearing though because it's a horrible situation to be in.

[pooka]

I really hope that he manages to hold onto his place. I really really can't believe that they have done this at such short notice and with such a delay between the place being accepted and then withdrawn. Ridiculous and completely unreasonable behaviour. It IS maladministration if you ask me.

If you do a search under school appeals on here then there may be expert advice. I do remember there being several people who have managed to win. Also, even if the official appeals have passed, by sending the letter out late, they cannot effectively revoke her right to appeal. That would certainly be maladministration.
If they have to pay for extra staff as a result of their cock-up then so be it. Grrrr.

(I'm also sure dd will be fine. Just being a bt of an emotional wreck about her going and it's not until January!)

[pooka]

But depends whether the form specifically stated that.
OUr application form just asked for siblings "currently attending the school" , not whether they would still be there when the applicant would start.
Unless it's been made clear, it seems really unreasonable to me. And ridiculous for noone to have made the connection between year group and DOB and whether the older sibling would have left the school within a reasonable time - not a month.