Does anyone know if there are government guidelines/rules about school trips being open to all?

[DrMarthaMcMoo]

I have looked on the DfES website and I can't find anything.

There is always a residential trip abroad in year 6 and ds1 is now in Year 5. The letter came out on Friday to say that this year (for the first time) places are limited to 45 - there are around 70 in the year. Places to be allotted on a first come first serve basis this morning (which translated to a rugby scrum outside the doors before they opened them at 8.30).

I'd be interested to know if there are any rules which mean school trips should be available to everyone (I can find lots of 'inclusivity' but not in these particular circumstances).

[percypig]

As far as I know there are no rules about trips being available to all.

There are a few reasons why schools need to control who goes on trips - for example at secondary level where kids do different subjects or are streamed, trips are quite often for specific classes or groups.

More importantly, schools have to carry out a risk assessment, and may wish to exclude certain children as a result. The risk assessment and practical issues have probably affected the limit on this trip - 45 children would fit on 1 coach, 70 children would need 2, loads more teachers etc.

[NKF]

I think trips are extra ie. not part of the general educational provision. That's why the numbers and type varies from school to school.

Found the idea of the rugby scrum entertaining.

[princesscc]

I think that a bit mean, whatever the rules & regs are. Did the note give any reason as to why they could only take 45? You'd think that they would just cancel the trip all together, rather than just the lucky 45 going. Glad I'm not going to be in your playground when the results are in! The repercussions will be terrible! BTW, we have a 60 pupil intake and all 60 year 6's are going away this year.

[themoon66]

In my memory, all school trips for my two have had restrictions on numbers. TBH, the abroad trips are usually so expensive they have trouble getting the numbers up to fill the bus.

[DrMarthaMcMoo]

It's to do with cost apparently - two coaches would be too expensive. I assume they are subsidising it in some way as the cost for each child is £285 - so not cheap anyway. He will be incredibly disappointed if he doesn't get a place - he was one of the first standing by the door but by the time the doors opened it was a free-for-all and he's not much of a pusher and shover so he may not have managed to get there in time. I think it's a dreadful way of doing it - names out of a hat would have been fairer.

[NKF]

Blimey. I hadn't realised it was the kids doing the shoving. That's not good. They might not have realised it would be so popular. That is quite pricey.

[DrMarthaMcMoo]

It is expensive - tbh, I don't mind if he doesn't go (that's a fair chunk of our "two weeks in a caravan in Cornwall" holiday budget for all 4 of us ) but I know how much he wants to (plus, I think it would be a good pre-secondary school confidence booster).

[princesscc]

I thought it was expensive too, we are paying the same and all 60 of ours are going, so assuming that the more that go, the cheaper it is, thats a lot.

[Shutupaboutyourflippingbabies]

martha
ring up the head and tell her this in a " he really wants to come" way

[Marina]

I do think names out of a hat would have been fairer to all moo, really.
A scrimmage is bound to disadvantage less assertive children. And presumably there are no registered disabled children in your Yr 5?

[percypig]

The cost issue is probably because with 2 coaches they'll need twice as many teachers, even though there aren't twice as many kids. So instead of paying for 2/3 subs at about £100 a day, they'll be paying for 4-6, in addition to the cost of the extra coach, which wouldn't even be full.

[percypig]

PS - excellent typing skills shutupaboutyourbabies

[Shutupaboutyourflippingbabies]

[DrMarthaMcMoo]

Is that you, cod? I can't bear the head - so I refuse to do any sucking up (though I happened to hear the secretary's ds crowing round the playground this morning "I'm definitely going! We've paid already!"). So that's what's meant by "first come, first served ...

[DrMarthaMcMoo]

Marina, there are no children with physical disabilities in Yr 5.

[portonovo]

I've never known trips being restricted like this in primary school, but it's common practise in secondary schools.

Sometimes they draw names out of a hat rather than the first-come-first-served scrum.

Often however the cost prohibits many, so they aren't over-subscribed anyway - although the ski-ing trip usually is!

It seems a bit sad and mean at primary level - at our school the Yr6 trip takes place the second week of the new academic year and is a real bonding thing for teachers and pupils. Nearly everyone goes.

[DrMarthaMcMoo]

Well, he got a place - he was number 12 on the list for his class - which is great for him but hard on those disappointed children who didn't

I've told him he has to start saving up his spends now...

[Marina]

I'm glad he got a place moo but as you say, tough on those who didn't
I agree with portonovo - the Yr 6 trip at ours is a fun-times with your old classmates before you go your separate ways, so is specifically planned to be doable for the whole (admittedly much smaller) year group.

[cece]

I would imnagine it is to do with costs. 45 would be one coach and if all 70 didn't go then the cost of the second coach for those few extras would add a lot to the costs.

[Blandmum]

There are also the associated costs of staff members as well. There are set limits on the numbers of staff per number of children.

One extra child may well mean an extra member of staff, and that cost has to be factored into the price per child (since teachers are not expected to pay)

Plus the extra cost of cover for the school if the rtip happen in term time.

[homemama]

Actually, there are rules governing things like this.
I'm not sure about secondary, but at primary level, school trips are always treated as part of the curriculum (whether they are or not) and therefore all children are entitled to go.

Therefore, schools cannot stop a child from going if, for instance, they haven't paid (this happens often).

I'm not sure if you're bothered anymore but there are guidelines about it somewhere.

[islandofsodor]

HOmemama, I think those rules only apply to trips that take part in school time, not residentials that are in out of school time.

[princesscc]

I guess in the end, its down to how much money the school has got in the kitty. Still glad I'm not going to be in the playground in the morning to pick up the pieces.

[portonovo]

I don't think residential trips come under the inclusion guidelines.

As for the 45 limit because of one coach, that can't be right, you can get bigger coaches. Our Yr6 trip only takes one coach and that is usually for about 48-55 children plus 5 staff.

[homemama]

I think they do cover residential trips, but yes, they do only cover trips which take place during term time. So as most residential trips take place during half terms etc then they are excluded, sorry to confuse.