Reading schemes- how quick should they move up?

[unicorn]

Only ask coz dd(2) is on the Oxford Reading Tree.. as are pals from dif schools but they all seem to be at dif stages.
My daughter is in reception and on stage 2- her pal is on 4 someone else in year 1 is on stage 7! but it sounds like other schools get through more books per week. She only had 2 this holiday- her pal had 4.
I know she's young but I don't want her to get bored.. and these books don't seem to stretch her much (she has lots of others at home).
Any Teachers out there? What do you think?

[unicorn]

DD(1) That should read...
Maybe I am just falling into this silly comparison thingy that parents get into with their kids?

[frogs]

Aaaaah, my pet hate, the Oxford Reading Tree!!!

Dd1 (9) had these at school; with ds (nearly 5, in reception) the school are doing more phonic-based work and using a reading scheme from NZ which I think is better.

My big gripe with the Oxford Reading Tree is that with the pictures it's pretty much idiot-proof, but without the pictures it's actually quite hard -- they use words like 'guitar' and 'headache' which the child stands no chance of being able to decipher. In other words, it encourages the child to look at the pictures and guess.

ORT get better further up the scheme -- at about Level 4 they introduce a set of quite gripping (for a reading scheme!) stories about a magic key that leads the children into lots of adventures.

IME how often children get their books changed depends on staff availability at the school. My ds gets a book changed twice a week, but never gets sent home with a book in the holidays. The level the child is given may or may not be appropriate to his/her reading ability: it depends on how on the ball the teacher or assistants are.

The children's actual reading level will also vary hugely my dd1 learnt to read freakishly fast, and had gone off the top of the ORT by the time she turned 5. But then again I had to go into the school every other week to throw a strop because she was so bored. Ds is much more normal can read many of the common words, but then will also unaccountably forget them, so needs quite a bit of support.

FWIW I think it's wise to assume that the person with primary responsibility for ensuring your child learns to read will be you. Get a set of books you like (check the library) and work through them. We use the same Ladybird keywords books I learnt to read from in the seventies they're very dated but I think v. good. Dr. Seuss is also good Ten Apples up on Top, Put Me in the Zoo, Hop on Pop are the easiest. It doesn't really matter as long as it's not too difficult, and just keep practising. That way you'll get a good idea of what she can actually do, and will give you a better basis for moaning to the school, if it comes to that.

Sorry about the long reply -- it's something I feel strongly about, and have seen first hand how it doesn't always work out as it should if you rely on the school.

[unicorn]

good advice frogs... I do think the school is a little er slapdash with the handing out of books (my dd got a book with no words in once- how ridiculous is that!) and a major source of discontent is that they have to do ALL the books- no skipping etc even if they can do them standing on their heads.
I shall take your advice tho and get a good set (got the seuss ones already..)
Shall watch how things progress though as I don't want her to be bored by year1!!!

[Copper]

Oxford Reading Tree now goes all the way up to Year 6. My ds2 was very annoyed to be told to stop reading The Hobbit because the school had had a new delivery of ORT books that he had to read before he was allowed to choose his own book ...

[tamum]

Unicorn, that does seem a bit casual. My dd is in her first year of school, but I should say that because the Scottish system is different children in her class are on average 6 months older than reception children. Having said that, she's about to finish Level 7 extra books, along with nearly a third of her class. The rest are mostly on stage 5 and above. They all get a new book every other day, so we have to do 16 pages per night (but none in the holidays). In a way it seems a bit harsh, but they are all coping fine. I would have thought that if your dd is not being stretched it might be worth raising it with the teacher really. I don't suppose it's doing her any harm, but as you say, you don't want her to get too bored.

[kalex]

Tamum,

Where in Scotland are you coz, I am SOOOO p***d off at my Daughters school, she in P1 and still on level 2. AND if all the group don't get the book or the vocab down - the whole group repeats the book.

And she is supposed to be in a very good primary

[kalex]

Also have been in to see the teacher and the depute head to no avail,

[tamum]

I hope I didn't make you feel worse kalex. I just think comparisons of whole classes (as opposed to one particularly bright child, not that my dd is) can be quite useful. That sounds utterly ridiculous about keeping them back to the level of the whole group. I don't think any of dd's class are on level 2. We're in central Edinburgh, and although there are quite a few affluent middle-class families there are plenty more low-income families, and several children in the class who didn't speak English until they started school. I honestly don't think they're exceptional kids, nor are they being hot-housed.

I can't honestly see what else you can do though, kalex. Will your dd get a new teacher in P2? I can't believe it's school policy to keep the whole group at one level like that- surely???

[kalex]

I actually put in a letter yesterday,

And the reply was, she hoped that I would understand that she (the teacher) had not heard the groups reading for several weeks as they had a student teacher, but she would ENDEVOUR to hear them next week. Sorry but that's her b**y job!!!

As you can tell I am reaaly upset about this. To be fair the system that they are on - and it's linked to the castle street kids - has 18 books per level, and the top group has only reached book 5-6 of level three.

But I am so annoyed that she is being kept to the pace of the slowest child, rather than being allowed to moe at her own pace. There are only 3 reading groups in the class and they are all heard twice a week. Where IMO she should either make the groups smaller or hear them more reguarly sp? .

The other problem I have is she only gets reading homework, so unless I go into the school I have no idea of what kind of work she is being expected to do. I have asked about this and about the homework policy and still not got a satisfactory asnwer

The real shame of this, is we are not zoned for this school but I was desparate to get he in as it has one of the best repuations in the area.

I also hope that this does not put DD off school.

Sorry that turned into a bit of a rant

[tamum]

I guess 18 books is a lot more than ORT- I think it's 6 books plus 6 "extras" at each level. Not having heard the groups for several weeks in inexcusable IMHO. My dd reads every day except Friday, because it's such a short day and they have gym. If it's any comfort they only have reading homework too; I don't think ds started getting anything other than reading until P3. I would just keep plugging away and hope that the rest of the teaching staff are a bit more on the ball.

[Miaou]

Unicorn, sorry to hear of your frustrating experiences with ORT. I am personally a big fan of ORT, as both my dd's found the books exciting. DD1 was moved off the scheme within a term of starting P1 - and that is where the scheme falls down - her teachers' comment was that it is a great scheme for average readers, but not good for those who are struggling or those who are very good readers. dd1 was then faced with trying different reading schemes but has now been moved off them onto proper "novels" - we're fortunate to be in a v. small school so the teacher has the flexibility to tailor reading to the individual.

None of this is any help to you at all, I've just realised! - however I would back up frog's words: "it's wise to assume that the person with primary responsibility for ensuring your child learns to read will be you.", and her recommendations for starting points. Is your dd allowed to bring a book home from the school library each day? We did this with dd1 in nursery/P1 to widen her reading experiences, with a mixture of her reading bits and us reading bits. When kids realise that there is a whole world of reading out there beyond ORT they are much less likely to get bored! HTH.

[firestorm]

my dd is also in reception & was reading the books with chip, biff & co (is that oxford reading tree?) recently she has been trying all sorts of schemes. her current books are from the guided reading link she only gets 2 books which are changed once a week. they are heard reading by a teaching assistant once a week also. i dont think either of her teachers (jobshare unfortunately with no communication between them) has ever heard her read. occasionally she gets work sheets sent home but they are never removed from the book bag & marked (i have some she was given over a term ago that ive recently removed from her book bag) now i dont even bother to put them in the bag & certainly dont rush to get them done.
to be honest im counting the days till the end of term & dd gets rid of her current teachers.(though i dont hold out much hope for next year either after what ive heard about her year 1 teacher)

[Tanzie]

DD1 is in Reception and is on stage 8 of ORT. The class originally went at the pace of the slowest reader, but they have now been "grouped" according to ability. DD1 is in the top group, but the bottom group, which includes special needs children, those with English as a second language and bizarrely, those with summer birthdays, do not seem to be going anywhere and are (apparently, according to one of the mums who helps out) often just told to play in the sand pit rather than do something constructive. As well as ORT, they also use books from lots of different schemes and we have had some really boring stuff, but also some which has really made DD1 have to think and spell things out. At home she reads anything she can get her hands on.

[Lara2]

I teach Year 1 and am a fan of ORT. I hear each of my groups read once a week in Guided reading. They take the book home and read it whenever they like. They all also have a 'shape' book - graded by difficulty that they choose themselves from a huge choice of fiction and non-fiction. They can change these books everyday if they want to. They also have a book from the library once a week - anything at all. As we are a unit, we have also targetted some ability groups and given them half a term's boost by reading with them everyday. At the end of the year, my special needs group is now at the beginning of ORT Stage 3( They still need a little help with some of the words). My 'top' group have read Stage 5 and are now off the scheme reading 'real' books - again graded by shape. For example, we read 'Mog and Bunny'. I really despair when I hear how some schools handle reading - it should be enjoyable and fun - why make them read something over and over again? Would we? My DS2's teacher was so awful, I taught him to read myself with ORT - it was structured enough to give him a real boost of confidence. I did get cross though - it was HER job to teach him (I don't object to helping!) not mine!

[roisin]

I despair too when I hear how other schools teach reading. My ds2 is in reception, and is an excellent reader. School have fantastic resources - loads of different schemes, sorted into the school's own levels. Each child is allowed to progress at their own pace, even if that pace is unusual. Throughout reception and yr1 children are heard read 3-4 times a week at school, (and ideally every night at home), and the book is changed at those times.

I like the ORT scheme - but there's loads of other good material out there too. Our school has some fab books by the National Geographic: beautiful, quality non-fiction books, from the simplest level of reading stages upwards.

[RushingAround]

I live on the Continent so don't know what happens in UK schools so much, but am interested in knowing more about 'classroom assistants'. Can any 'concerned parent' suggest to the teacher that they could go in and help out a bit by listening to the children read etc? Are teachers open to this sort of thing, or is it seen as a bit of threat by them, and that their professional skills/whatever are being undermined...?

[unicorn]

hmm.. it's v interesting reading all the differences in approaches..
my dd gets 1 library book a week and we do a lot of other reading so she is getting practice at home.. but it does concern me that she is (like kalex says) being slowed down - as it suits the bureacracy of the class. (ie handing out books etc)
Not sure whether I shouldleave it this year and see what happens in yr 1?
Rushing around- we have parents who go in to help (one day only) but that doesn't seem to speed the books up any more!

[annh]

Now I'm getting completely paranoid about ds1's progress in year 1! As background, we moved back to UK end of Sept last year so he started late in year 1 and was not reading (at ALL) because continental school starts reading later. So he was way behind his class but seemed to start catching up quickly. His teacher said she was really pleased with his progress at both parents' evenings and he is now in the top group for work in the class.

However, he is still ploughing through Stage 3 of ORT and getting a bit bored. It was fine when he was learning but now he is reading confidently and with expression and he says he is getting bored. He gets 2 books at a time and they used to change twice a week but that now seems to have gone down to only one. We read them on the first evening, compare the stories, look at the pictures, talk about what might happen next etc. and then, understandably, he wants something else!

He tells me he wants books with more words and that other people are reading more interesting books so I put in a request in his reading comments book and his teacher said she would review after half-term but nothing seems to have happened. I don't want to be pushy but I also don't want him to lose interest when he seems to be doing well? Anyone any ideas where he could/should be in the scheme?

[northernlass1]

I've also got a bit worried. Can any mumsnet teachers or other mums help me out. DS1 is in reception - he's five next week and didn't start school until January - he's on ORT at atge 1+ - he's works out words using phonics sounds and has learned some words such as this, the, that and and etc - I thought he was doing OK but am getting a bit paranoid after reading this thread. He's absolutely shattered after school so it's quite difficult to get him to practice at home.

[jampot]

The Oxford Racing Tree - does it really matter what stage the children are on or how quickly they get there. It's reading that counts and surely it doesn't matter what they read as long as they enjoy it. My dd (March bday) left reception on stage 9 because she loved reading and she had a teacher who recognised it and gave her extra ORT books to read at home in addition to the stacks of other books she read at home including Animal Ark, Magic Pony etc. My ds (Sept bday) doesn't like reading fiction and finds it a chore he is in yr 2 and on stage 9. He reads all kinds of factual books (mainly about dinosaurs) but cannot settle with a fiction book.

[northernlass1]

thanks jampot - thats made me feel a whole lot better

[jampot]

Sorry didn't mean to shout - your ds seems to be doing really well having grasped the phonics concept quite early on and is also able to "recognise" words. my advice (and I'm not a teacher) would be to have words and books around generally and not worry too much about stages - the playground can get quite a competitive arena (and not for the kids)

[Lara2]

Batters - been writing reports, so just got back on here. I'd be horrified if my own sons were never reading with their teacher! It's part of the job - and a requirement of the literacy strategy to do guided reading. At the end of the day, ( and I'm REALLy not insulting SNA's, LSA's etc ) it is the teacher's job to teach the children in his/her class to read and improve on those skills. How can you have a feel for where they are if you don'? Reading affects every other area of the curriculum for goodness sake! I'd be hot footing it round to the school if I were you, and having a bit of a chat! It's not been my experience ever for this to happen. I rely on my parent volunteers to do EXTRA reading and also for my SNA to read and have a chat about the book etc later in the week with my special needs group. As I said, I hear every child read every week, and will share books at any other time that I can - precious few I'm afraid!

[unicorn]

ok - the latest.. I wrote in he comments book that dd (1) was finding books a bit easy and getting bored....
so she has now been given a book review page to write out.. which is completely daft as a) there is very little to review in the book.. and 2) she can barely write.
I think they are trying but tbqh they haven't really got a clue.
Is it worth making a fuss - or should I just CHILL??