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Please read: how the virus spreads in a restaurant, an office, and a bus

(28 Posts)
Redolent Sun 21-Jun-20 13:53:00

Really great article discussing how exactly people get infected when eating at restaurants, etc. Worth bearing in mind now that indoor places are opening up. Also had helpful advice on how to structure indoor offices to avoid outbreaks:

english.elpais.com/spanish_news/2020-06-17/an-analysis-of-three-covid-19-outbreaks-how-they-happened-and-how-they-can-be-avoided.html

OP’s posts: |
Redolent Sun 21-Jun-20 13:55:36

Air conditioning seems such a huge factor (recirculation of air). Maybe helps to explain why things are kicking off in places like Arizona where barely anyone is outdoors because of the heat.

OP’s posts: |
StrawberryJam200 Sun 21-Jun-20 15:09:18

I've found this article very useful as well, includes aircon , toilet flushing risks:

https://erinbromage.wixsite.com/covid19/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them

StrawberryJam200 Sun 21-Jun-20 15:28:08

Thanks OP, have read yr article now, it covers some of the same studies as mine but explains transmission even more clearly.

I wish the government would publicise these kinds of explanations, it would help people to "Be alert"!

TiredMummyXYZ Sun 21-Jun-20 15:34:49

I wish they had something like this for classrooms - especially if we are to return to full class sizes of 30 in September with no PPE for teachers.

Lostmyshityear9 Sun 21-Jun-20 16:10:32

Teachers are screwed. Rooms where windows don't open or barely open. Heating via circulation system rather than radiators. It really is problematic.

Areyouactuallyseriousrightnow Sun 21-Jun-20 16:14:07

So interesting and useful thank you

Redolent Sun 21-Jun-20 18:04:39

StrawberryJam200

Thanks OP, have read yr article now, it covers some of the same studies as mine but explains transmission even more clearly.

I wish the government would publicise these kinds of explanations, it would help people to "Be alert"!

I found the Erin Bromage article v helpful too.

Yes it would help for more people to understand how transmission works, even for their own risk assessment. Otherwise we have people constantly sanitising their hands, washing shopping etc, whereas the risk of being in an enclosed space is much greater.

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StrawberryJam200 Sun 21-Jun-20 18:43:44

I guess there isn't anything for classrooms exactly because there have been no real outbreaks in schools (I think)? But I guess they could still study why, although X and Y tested positive, but despite spending three hours in a classroom with them, no one else was infected (or whatever).

There's the study of the French child who gave it to nobody (as far as could be ascertained), not even siblings, but on the other hand household studies have found some instances of children introducing it to the house and spreading it to other family members. See here for a summary:
https://fullfact.org/health/covid-19-in-children/

Musicforsmorks Sun 21-Jun-20 18:47:33

Great news for those stuck with public transport, I would hardly imagine they don’t have recirculating air conditioning. ☹️

AndwhenyougetthereFoffsomemore Sun 21-Jun-20 18:47:52

that's an excellent, clear article: thanks for sharing OP

PilatesPeach Sun 21-Jun-20 19:16:12

Very interesting thank you for the articles on here.

ClarasZoo Sun 21-Jun-20 19:17:02

Very interesting- thank you for posting. What is interesting is how the approx. 50% of people in very close proximity did not get infected. My hypothesis is that 40-50% of people do not get infected which would tie in with how London only got hit for 20% or so. Could 60-70% of London now be immune? This also explains how some spouses seem to avoid it even if their other half gets it...

Keepdistance Sun 21-Jun-20 19:19:12

The french boy also had flu which likely reduced his transmission.
Older people make more antibodies to covid as more so not surprising that fewer kids have had positive antibodies.

The article makes a good case for clear barriers around kids desks

Lumene Sun 21-Jun-20 19:28:27

V useful, thanks!

itsgettingweird Sun 21-Jun-20 19:42:26

That's a fab article. Thanks for sharing

motherstongue Sun 21-Jun-20 20:03:16

I found that very informative and enlightening. Thank you.

Lifeisabeach09 Sun 21-Jun-20 20:11:06

Very interesting.

Redolent Sun 21-Jun-20 20:20:28

You’re welcome smile

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Barbie222 Sun 21-Jun-20 20:27:59

That's very interesting OP.

On the subject of schools I think they are considered high risk and "budgeted for" as such when the amount of lockdown restriction is looked at, because the need for schools outweighs the cost in terms of health - when you look at the whole of society. Therefore they get a lot of the "wriggle room" in terms of R. As a teacher I don't have the answers and I'm not high risk myself but I can understand colleague concerns. There isn't really a parallel situation in society to schools.

The numbers of outbreaks in schools can be checked in PHE's weekly surveillance report. There were 12 this week rising from 9 previous week and 3 week before that. The numbers of outbreaks in "other settings" which includes offices etc is also rising - the indoor transmission thing is definitely true.

StrawberryJam200 Sun 21-Jun-20 20:49:55

@Barbie222 how do PHE define an outbreak, I was meaning lots of cases?

Barbie222 Sun 21-Jun-20 21:00:38

At least 2 people from a setting is an "outbreak".

TheGreatWave Sun 21-Jun-20 21:09:25

Interesting. My work are planning for us to be back in two weeks time. My biggest concern is the fact that the building has air conditioning and no windows. Prior to lockdown they made everyone have personal cutlery etc, yet we can sit in a building with us all breathing in the same air.

okiedokieme Sun 21-Jun-20 21:15:16

@Lostmyshityear9

Depends on the school. Here there's normal radiators and no aircon, windows open (dd consequently had hay fever problems every summer)

okiedokieme Sun 21-Jun-20 21:16:08

@Musicforsmorks

No aircon on buses here!

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