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Being 'vulnerable' does not make you part of the 'Shielded' group - if you're confused, see below

(266 Posts)
Clymene Thu 02-Apr-20 21:30:33

At the start of the outbreak, many people were told they were in the vulnerable category. This includes people with asthma, pregnant women, the morbidly obese and people with MS and diabetes.

The full list is here: www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-guidance-on-social-distancing-and-for-vulnerable-people/guidance-on-social-distancing-for-everyone-in-the-uk-and-protecting-older-people-and-vulnerable-adults

These people should be very careful with social distancing, ideally for 12 weeks.

The shielded group are people who are extremely vulnerable. They have been identified by the NHS and should not leave the house. These are people with cancer, organ transplants, cystic fibrosis and other serious conditions. This is why they have been issued with food parcels by the government. A full list of these people is here:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-on-shielding-and-protecting-extremely-vulnerable-persons-from-covid-19/guidance-on-shielding-and-protecting-extremely-vulnerable-persons-from-covid-19

You cannot self-define as shielded. If you are vulnerable, take precautions. Use your local resources. But remember there are people who are much more vulnerable than you.

If you do not fall into either of these groups, please leave the resources to keep the vulnerable safe and well. Not only to protect them, but to protect all of us. Not to put too fine a point on it, but if the vulnerable clog up all the beds, there won't be any space for the outliers who randomly get very ill.

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OtherVoices Thu 02-Apr-20 21:38:34

* Not to put too fine a point on it, but if the vulnerable clog up all the beds, there won't be any space for the outliers who randomly get very ill.*

Explain to me.

MitziK Thu 02-Apr-20 21:42:31

I think it means 'If you're standard risk/healthy and take the piss by claiming vulnerability/people to do the shopping for you/internet shopping slots, the sheer numbers of vulnerable people you'll be fucking over that can't get those measures because you've had them will end up in hospital and if your standard risk turns out to be life threatening illness, you'll be the one regretting it because there won't be a bed for you'.

Clymene Thu 02-Apr-20 21:44:43

OtherVoices - the reason why we're self-isolating is to stop the spread of the virus. The reason those who are more vulnerable are being asked to take added precautions is because if they get it, they're more likely to be ill. If we can protect them to a degree (or at least manage their infection so it happens by small degrees rather than all at once), there is a chance the NHS will cope.

If the 1.5 million shielded people carry on as normal, they will all get enormously ill, and we will go under.

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HairyHoraceHaggis Thu 02-Apr-20 21:44:52

I’m in the shielded group (and it does apply to many asthmatics btw, depending on the inhaler type and dose, with other factors taken into account).

Re: food parcels - people only need to register for them if they do not have other support through friends and family to drop off.

I am also puzzled by the bit about “taking up beds” hmm

Barbie222 Thu 02-Apr-20 21:45:57

Clogging up isn't a great term, because if you need ICU you need ICU regardless of how vulnerable you were to start with, and thankfully we are not yet at the point of making choices about who gets to use the ventilators.

I expect you mean access to food delivery parcels and delivery slots? I don't think you would be able to make up that you had a condition on the shielding list if you don't.

HairyHoraceHaggis Thu 02-Apr-20 21:46:15

And why have you taken it upon yourself to tell shielded people not to carry on as normal?

Clymene Thu 02-Apr-20 21:47:55

And what MitziK said.

Those of us who are fit and well should go to the shops. Yes, it's frightening, but we need to put on our big girl pants, take sensible precautions and leave the deliveries to the vulnerable. Shopping delivery is not a nice to have, it's an emergency service right now.

Because if we don't, we're putting more people at risk.

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Clymene Thu 02-Apr-20 21:51:49

I haven't 'taken it upon myself' @HairyHoraceHaggis. That's the government guidance.

The reason I started this thread is because I think the government advice has been really confusing. They started out listing a group of people who they said were vulnerable (category 2) and then they developed a second list of people who were really, really vulnerable (category 1).

But they didn't tell the people who fall into category two that they didn't meet the category one criteria.

So lots of people are expecting some kind of letter or something when they won't get one. And there is bugger all support or help for them.

Which is why I think we need to help them by freeing up resources.

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Butterer Thu 02-Apr-20 21:56:10

I would have thought those without vulnerabilities (the 'outliers') would be prioritised over those with, when it comes to hospitals being overwhelmed and urgent coronavirus related care being prioritised.

I'm in the vulnerable group, and I've assumed that since the start...
Might just be being paranoid though smile

Wingedharpy Thu 02-Apr-20 21:57:38

And, even if you are on the "shielding" list - I am - the guidance does say that others who live with you don't need to shield as well (unless they're on the list too obvs), providing they stringently adhere to the social distancing guidelines.

I appreciate that everyones circumstances are different, but I agree OP, don't use anything (goods or services) you don't need otherwise, it may not be there when you do.

Only you know if you NEED something as opposed to WANT.

0hT00dles Thu 02-Apr-20 22:02:11

My df hasn't left the house since we went into lockdown in ireland - before that, we told him to try and get out for a walk in anticipation of lockdown. He has heart and kidney failure and diabetes but not on the 'cocoon' list in ireland. Bur he's cocooning. So is my mum.

So sick of people complaining they've been told to cocoon.

I see so many elderly in the shops/out walking.

Please just heed the advice

0hT00dles Thu 02-Apr-20 22:03:38

Oh and my brother and I shop for them! We pick up what they need.

Works well. I even got them hand sanitizer

LonginesPrime Thu 02-Apr-20 22:08:01

Yes, it's frightening, but we need to put on our big girl pants

hmm

Wingedharpy Thu 02-Apr-20 22:09:23

To be fair, some of us just look old rather than are old😥

PlanDeRaccordement Thu 02-Apr-20 22:11:20

This is disturbing, but the British Medical Assoc (BMA) has just published ethical guidance on how doctors are to choose who lives and who dies. To me, it reads that the elderly and disabled will be denied ICU beds in favour of the young and abled. Especially if your disability is a co-morbidity for CORVID-19, which are vulnerabilitirs like asthma, diabetes, heart disease,.etc.

“What criteria should be used when making these treatment allocation decisions?
During the peak of the pandemic, it is possible that doctors may be required to assess a person’s eligibility for treatment based on a ‘capacity to benefit quickly’ basis. As such, doctors may be called on to deny some of the most unwell patients access to life-sustaining treatment such as cardio-pulmonary resuscitation, intensive care or artificial ventilation. To ensure maximum benefit from admission to intensive care, it will be necessary to adopt a threshold for admission to intensive care or use of scarce intensive treatments such as mechanical ventilation or extracorporeal membrane oxygenation. Such decisions should be made using local policies and guidance. Relevant factors predicting survival from COVID-19 include severity of acute illness, presence and severity of co-morbidity and, to the extent that it is a clinically reliable indicator, patient age Those patients whose probability of dying, or of requiring a prolonged duration of intensive support, exceeds a threshold level would not be considered for intensive treatment, though of course they should still receive other forms of medical care. These decisions must be made on the best available clinical evidence, including clinical triage advice from appropriate clinical bodies.”

“During the peak of a pandemic, doctors are likely to be required to assess a person’s eligibility for treatment based on a ‘capacity to benefit quickly’ basis. As such, some of the most unwell patients may be denied access to treatment such as intensive care or artificial ventilation. *This will inevitably be indirectly discriminatory against both the elderly and those with long-term health conditions relevant to their ability to benefit quickly, with the latter being denied access to life-saving treatment as a result of their pre-existing health problems*”

www.bma.org.uk/media/2219/bma-covid-19-long-form-faqs.pdf

Helenshielding Thu 02-Apr-20 22:13:00

I dont understand your final sentence.

But, I agree, the government has confused people with their use of the word vulnerable. If you havent got a letter and you thought you would, check with your GP. If you're not shielding dont use resources aimed at people who literally cant leave the house.

People shouldnt have to be told this though....

Butterer Thu 02-Apr-20 22:18:18

I'm not sure if I should guilty about having been able to get a weekly shop delivered? I live alone, and don't have anyone to pick stuff up for me. My insulin and other medications are also being delivered.

The alternative is to go out multiple times in a week to local shops. Mine are fine with social distancing once you're in there, but there's always people milling around a foot or so outside the doorway who won't move confused

SquashedFlyBiscuit Thu 02-Apr-20 22:19:25

We are full on shielding as asthma uk originally had us in that group dewpite lack of letter.

As link above says I may not get a ventilator if it came to it . I also have high bmi so the two together mean my outlook may not be good. When I spoke to gp/asthma nurse/counsellor I've mentioned were doing this and they all think its a good idea tbh.

I don't think its your place to tell vulnerable people (clues in the name) to put themselvws at risk.

thegreylady Thu 02-Apr-20 22:20:50

My dh is nearly 84, he has prostate cancer, type 2 diabetes, colitis and has had a heart attack (not recent). He is vulnerable not ‘shielded’. I am 76, asthmatic and a cancer survivor so also classed as vulnerable.
We are choosing to isolate for now. We would have little chance of survival if infected. We aren’t asking for any special privileges. We have had home deliveries while most shops are shut and our family and friends are leaving shopping outside. We plan to give it a total of 3 weeks the be careful with distancing etc but as we aren’t allowed to drive we can’t go anywhere anyway.

Helenshielding Thu 02-Apr-20 22:23:55

I'm not sure if I should guilty about having been able to get a weekly shop delivered?

Not at all, use what is available. I assume OP is referring to the specific resources available for those who are shielding.

Flowersforpowers Thu 02-Apr-20 22:28:05

I do agree that people are confused about what different groups should be doing. I see it a lot on pregnancy groups - women thinking they've been told to shield and are then confused when their employer expects them to work. You can't declare yourself in to the shielded category in terms of work/support, but you certainly can choose to shield if you have the suitable support network.

justanotherneighinparadise Thu 02-Apr-20 22:29:34

My understanding is the likelihood of recovering once ventilated is around 20-30%. So it makes sense to give priority to those who would most likely recover.

With that in mind the advice is to shield if you fall into the ‘extremely vulnerable’ category and isolate if you are vulnerable. The idea is that once the peak is over you are more likely to have access to the breathing apparatus you may need.

Burpeesshmurpees Thu 02-Apr-20 22:31:00

See this is what I think is so unfair. If you are 'vulnerable' enough to potentially be denied lifesaving ICU treatment then in my book you should be allowed as much help -should you need it - as the shielded group. Why should a diabetic or an asthmatic or someone with heart disease or whatever have to put themselves at risk by going to the supermarket when they could potentially be just left to die? Why are they any less important than the people on the list?

Clymene Thu 02-Apr-20 22:32:21

@Helenshielding - my last sentence is for all the people who are scared to go out because they have young children, or they live far from a shop or their husband works long hours. These are all reasons I've seen on here as to why those people need to have their shopping delivered.

My point is that they need to protect the very vulnerable - not just for the sake of the vulnerable but for their own self-interest.

@PlanDeRaccordement - that scares the bejeezus out of me. I'm not in the shielded category but those I love are which is why I'm trying to protect them so fiercely.

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