thin womb lining/possible adhesions- advice please

[torres]

Hi all, was hoping from some advice from you lovely ladies.

I had 2 ERPCs following a mc at the start of the year and have been ttc since. Have had 2 scans over 2 cycles- one at 14 days, and one at 19 days (I have a 25-27 day cycle). Both showed a thin endometrial lining of 5mm. I was told 8mm was what I should be aiming for at the very least. The woman doing the scan today was very abrupt and said I would never get pregnant with a lining that thin, so you can imagine I am stressing out! Of course, I dont actually have an appointment to see anyone about the results and see what if anything can be done. The woman doing the scan wasnt that helpful- said it might just be thin, or it might be adhesions from the ERPC which could be treated, but didnt explain how. If its not adhesions, is general thinness untreatable?

Does anyone have any experience? I would be really grateful for your comments. I have built myself up into a complete state that I will be forever barren.

Many thanks

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I don't think you will be barren. The lining may be thin due to ovulatory problems (I had thin lining due to irregular periods). Such things can be treated.

When are you due to see the gynae again?. I would have assumed that you will be seen by such a person soon.

Drug treatment on its own will not touch adhesions once they are formed. Usually adhesions are removed through laparoscopic (keyhole type) surgery.

I would talk at some length to the gynae team about the treatment you received at the hands of this unhelpful person today. This issue should be addressed. Small wonder you've been scared witless.

[torres]

Thanks Attila, you've calmed me down a bit. I'm still waiting for an appointment but have been trying to get hold of my GP today to no avail. Its horrible getting results without also being told what action can be taken, you're just left with fear.

[kensgirl]

Oh Torres!
I don'tknow anything about this but wanted you to know I'm thinking of you. Can I ask how you came to have the scans? Did you have specific symptoms of a thin lining, I'm wondering if it is the pains you described once?
I'm sure there must be some treatment to thicken the lining - hormonal?
Sorry the person was so unhelpful - can you push to see a consultant?

thinking of you xx

[torres]

Hi Kensgirl! It was actually instigated because I went to see the Gp about how I could cope with feeling so down and stressed about the mc and I told her about how I was imagining I had all sorts of conditions following the EPRC. She said having a scan would give me closure and calm me down.... it hasn't! So she told me which day to go on when the lining would be at its thickest and after I should have ovulated so they could check that as well. So I went along to a private clinic paid my £100, seeing it as 'therapy' thinking I would come out saner but I've gone the other way.

I don't know if its tied in with the odd mid cycle cramps or not- I hope I haven't worried you even more, I know you've had the same symptoms. I even considered posting under another name not to scare people!

[kensgirl]

I think my mid cyle cramps might be at ovulation time. Or at least I hope so. But, like you, I feel I want some reassurance that eerything is working an healthy, especially as I'm still not pg.

Glad you didn't post under a different name though. Have you been able to speak to anyone yet? maybe its just taking a while to thicken up again, especially if you needed 2 ERPC's. Hope you are coping x

[torres]

Thanks for being so sweet. Still haven't been able to get hold of gp so think I will have to camp out there tomorrow morning. one half of me thinks that it must be expected after having 2 operations and i'm just being impatient and it can be treated, the other half has gone into overdrive. I need an off switch!

[kensgirl]

When were the ERPC's? Did you need 2 because the 1st was unsuccessful? Try to relax this evening an then go back to the GP ASAP, the same who told you to go to get pace of mind.

[torres]

Feb, and yes, the 1st was 'incomplete'. You are right- I am going to switch off the pc as I keep finding horror stories on the net, have a glass of wine and watch some DvDs til Dh gets home.

thanks again for being so sweet, I know you are having a tough time right now as well xxx
speak tomorrow

[kensgirl]

Any news Torres?

[torres]

Hi Kensgirl- I have got myself in such a state and had to take yesterday off work. My GP has gone on hols for a fortnight and none else at the surgery would speak to me. I've just managed to speak to another GP but he was useless, basically saying they might be able to sort it out (would need an op) or they might not. What a t**t! and what a great thing to be told on a friday afternoon. So either I go in next week to see him or wait until my nice GP returns. I'm so so scared.

How are you doing hon, you've not had the best of starts to the week?

[RosyBelle]

Hi Torres

I don't know if this is any help but will tell you my story so far...

I have a Daughter born 2002 by C section. I then miscarried in 2005 and had ERPC. I have pretty major adhesions...
We are now having IVF & I am in the 2ww of my 2nd attempt. (DH has poor Swimmers we have found out). The adhesions severly hamper the IVF as my consultant finds it hard to get to my ovaries and my left ovary has stuck to my womb by adhesions...

As you have been told I think adhesions can only be remedied by surgery...

As for your womb lining - during the IVF process we attempt to improve the thickness of the womb lining through diet... I am no expert but I was wondering if this would be beneficial to you ttc naturally:

Selenium is good for promoting a healthy womb lining so try eating foods rich in that...

Brazil nuts (highest), tuna, cod, chicken, beef, eggs, pineapple juice (not fresh pineapple), brown rice, wholemeal bread, cheese & walnuts, to name a few. Alternatively you can get selenium supplements from chemists/healthfood stores.

I don't post on here much but thought this may help....

Rose

[kensgirl]

Hi Torres
Just read your post on the ttc after mc thread too. I'm sorry you are feeling so low, I just can't uderstand ho on earth some doctors speak to patients,with a omplete lack of empathy or concrn. Do they not realise tht they should be dealing with patients health overall, including their emotional or mental health?? grrr!

I think I would wait until the nice GP returns, definately. In the meantime, try and take good care of yourself - easier said than done I know...
There musr be remdies out there, hormonal or natural to help build up the lining. Try not to worry over other peoples experiences (Sinitta?)
as everyone is different. But as Rosie says, there are always options, and often we know little about what is available to help until it happens to us. I hope this makes sense, what I'm trying unsuccessfully to say, is stay positive.

Are your periods short or light etc now?

I'm doing alright at the moment. I've had a lot or tearful times this week, but I've made a bit of a deal with myself. I'm trying to say godbye now, my milestones have been reaches, and it is the future that is importnat. I need to focus on putting my head in the right place, and realising that sheer desperation to have a baby is maybe holding me back. In the great plan, 6.5 months is nothing, and it will happen for us one day, even if we need fertility tretment we won't give up. In the meantime I have lovely dh, love my family, nice home, interesting job, and we are booking a holiday to give us some time out. Its time to move on, and give a new baby room to come into my life. I know that sounds a bit poncey but you know what I mean!

[torres]

Kensgirl- that does not sound poncey at all. I think with all the negativity we have had to deal with it is important that we do actually think about the good things we have in life- so many people don't have a loving partner and to have that is a wonderful and amazing thing. I felt so low over the weekend and I walked in on DH have a quiet few tears to himself and it really brought it home to me how much I love him and how he is going through all this too. I've got a GP appointment next week with the nice doctor so will join you in trying to get my head in a good spce til then.

Rosybelle- thank you so much for posting. I have been eating Brazil nuts like mad since I read your post. Your list of foods has given me something to focus on- makes me feel so much better when I'm doing 'something' as so much about ttc is out of our control. Wishing you lots and lots of luck for this IVF cycle.

[RosyBelle]

Hi Torres

Glad it has helped... you are dead right... even changing your diet can help put you in a positive frame of mind & it is good to think you are doing something to help.

And Kensgirl gave some good advice to me too... the 2ww of ivf is such a nightmare and I have been trying to keep my head in a good place even though I think this is it for us now. I test tomorrow.

Good luck with your appointment next week. Kensgirl - did you book that holiday??

DH has promised we can get a puppy if this fails... we can't afford any more treatment and I need something to think about other than the Ivf I have been thinking about for the last year.

Good luck to you both

R
xxx

[kensgirl]

Hi Rosy and Torres!

Good luck, Rosy. I really hope you gte very good news tomorrow, let us know
how you go on .

Glad I have finaly found some words of wisdom, thats not like me at all.

Torres - I'm glad you are waiting to see the good doctor. Hope you are feeling a bit better, sending you a hug!

I'm supposed to be booking the holiday on the net as we speak. I'm looking at Italy or Crete. but, I've just lookedat the Maldives, all-inclusive for the same price, so now wondering if we should risk the weather. Anywhere will be good though, just away from everything.

Love to you both xx

[RosyBelle]

Hi Girls

I tested this morning & its another Negative

Maldives sound heaven Kensgirl! Go for it.

R
xx

[Glimmer]

Hi Rose -- very sorry to hear you tested negative. Could it have been too early? Your DP sounds lovely.

Torres -- I think I shared my story with you before 2 ERPCs (1st incomplete), then cervical stenosis, very thin womb lining, adhesions suspected.
First of all, there are things that can be done in either case and your chances are good. Second, maybe your GP got the times for your womb lining wrong and you were scanned at the wrong time -- this is what happened to me. Especially, since the cycles after a period can be unusually long or short.

If your womb lining is thin, there are hormones that help to built it up. This is not a big intervention.
If you should have adhesions, they need to do a hysteroscoy and remove them. Adhesions will often lead to thin womb lining. The chances for a succesful pg afterwards are very good!
An expert sonographer can see adhesions on a scan, but most are not trained in this. Your GP sounds lovely but he/she might not have enough knowledge to give you good advise. It might be worth to see a consultant privately and get all the information you need right now. I was in state of anxiety but after talking to a good consultant, there seemed to be ways to treat everything.

Where do you live? I could recommend somebody in the greater London area. In my case the problem was the cervical stenosis and I had no visible adhesions. I do not know if that helps or makes it worse but I fell pg one month after the third surgery. I will tey and check this thread, but if you ever want to find me, I am on the 'pregnancy after mc' thread under pregnancy.

I know exactly how scared you are right now (I was there for 5 months), but I am absoltelu sure you will feel better as you take action and learn more.

Thinking of you.

[torres]

Hi Glimmer

Thanks for posting, I do remember you! your story gives me real hope. My head is all so mixed up with grief and anger at the initial surgeon. I went for 2 scans , both just post ovulation when my impression was the lining should be at its thickest but would be good to see a specialist for their point of view.

I'm in London so greater London would be ideal, who did you see? I've been speaking to DH about seeing someone privately but its a bit of a minefield knowing whether you get anyone competent, I am so distrustful of surgeons now! It would be great to have a recommendation.

Thank you so much for your comments on treatments- I agree info and action is the way to reduce anxiety, it's the being in limbo and waiting that fuels my madness and panic attacks.

I really hope after all your trauma you are able to enjoy this pregnancy, it can't be easy to put all the negative emotions to one side.

I've found an old thread where martianbishop talked about her treatment for Ashermans- does she still lurk anywhere?

Rosy- so so sorry about the BFN, as glimmer said, is there still a chance for hope?

Kensgirl- did you book that holiday? you deserve some pampering x

[Glimmer]

Hi Torres,
Glad if my post was of some help. Yes, if you do a search on Ashermans's you will find an old threat that I started in the autumn of last year. I find it outragious when GPs or sonographers diagnose you with adhesions and then send you home without further follow-up.
The only thing it does, is cause anxiety.
I am happy to give you the name of the consultant who helped me a lot. However, his expertise is antenatal diagnostic and he is no expert on Ashermans (but can detect them on ultrasounds). I also very much like that he takes patients serious and give them recommendations to the doctors he knows. I have never used the CAT (Contact a Mumsnetter; top of the page) facility of mumsnets, but have changed my profile, so that you can CAT me if you wish. I live 30min-1h outside of London, so maybe your best best would be Harley Street or
the Portland. Ideally, you would want to talk to an endocrinologist for the thin womb lining and an surgian for the adhesions. Again, I believe that there is a really high probablility that you won't need any treatment or just some hormones in the end, but if you do, you do not want to wait months and years before you find out.

[torres]

Thanks Glimmer, you've been really helpful and given me lots to think about. As you say, I really don't want to wait months and months to find out. Not only am I feeling old but my mental health would be in a very sorry state.

The name of your consultant would be a wonderful starting point so I'll take up tour offer and CAT you- I really appreciate this- thank you.

[Glimmer]

Hi Torres. Looking forward to your CAT. Haven't been contacted yet by MN. Will be checking this thread tomorrow.

[Glimmer]

In case you already tried your CAT might not have reached me, since I hadn't paid the suscription fee. Have done so now.

[kensgirl]

Hi all

Glimmer, your story and outlook on things re just so reassuring. It is lovely to hear you hve had a good outcome at the end of what must have been a nightmare.

If I feel like that now, then you must feel better, Torres! It sounds as though glimmer really has been a glimmer of hope.

I hope so for you too, Rosie? So sorry it was a bfn for you, but I hope you are trying again? It sounds as though you deserve some pampering too, take care, and thinking of you xx

[RosyBelle]

Thanks for your posts girls... it was a definate negative on test day but I am still waiting for AF to turn up... last time it failed she arrived by lunch time on test day but I know it can take a couple of days so trying hard not to get my hopes up...
During 2ww we take a drug called cyclogest (2 pessaries a day - yuk) and this delays AF while in 2ww.

Glimmer you sound so knowledgable!! You all sound like you have been through loads too... its nice to know we are not the only ones.

We have our follow-up on 7th Aug... I am going to ask about a hysteroscopy to remove my adhesions... I think he will say no point as DH's sperm is not good so why remove my problems... but we can't afford any more ivf so would like anything to help...

DH has gone to the travel agents today Kensgirl... but only to book for next yr! Can i come to Maldives in your suitcase...??

R
x

[Glimmer]

Dear Torres, Kensgirl and RosyBelle,
thanks for your kind words. It really touches me that you found them reassuring. It really makes everything I went through just a tiny bit worthwhile.

Torres CAT me and I gave her the name of the consultant plus a little more info so that she won't be disappointed in case she decided to go. She's off for the weekend.

I have no medical training !!! but am a scientist, so reading up on everything was my way of trying to cope with my situation and -- unfortunately it was necessary to get the treatment I needed. I am happy to share everything I learned but please, note, that I have no medical training. Attila, you are medically trained, aren't you?

RosyBelle, I still hope for your BFP. I have to say I am very surprised they tried IVF wihtout removing the adhesions first. So either the adhesions must be minor or they must reduce your chances to conceive. Are you sure your clinic is reputable? Was does your consultant say about this? If your DH sperm is not so good, they should have tried ICSI, no? It seems to me, that if your adhesions are mremoved you try IUI and have a chance, which should be a lot cheaper than IVF? I very much hope it will work out for you one way or another.