Does anyone have experience with impacted poos and "overflow"?

[Caz10]

And apologies to those who are eating their tea!!

Long story short, DD 3, recently potty trained, withholding poos. Gone from once a day pooing when in nappies to 2-3 times a week max sometimes less.

Now we barely ever have a "proper" poo, just constant, almost hourly small poos/skitters in pants - it is driving me mad.

After asking advice on here and doing some mad googling, the common consensus was that she probably is constipated, the skitters are "overflow" and she needs medication to help clear it.

So off we go to GPs, who only basically agreed with me and offered no new advice, and back on the lactulose (I tried it before but only for a week, I didn't realise how long you had to give it).

Anyway, sorry that wasn't short, my questions are:

• if it was "overflow" would she feel it coming? When a skitter is about to arrive I can see her doing her poo face, turning her back, she tells me to go away etc - all classic I'm holding in a poo signs, which means she knows a poo is coming - that makes me wonder if it IS overflow?
  
• if your DCs have had this problem, do you have any magic wand answers?!! Bribery just not working.
  
  She has pooed successfully a handful of times both on the loo and on the potty, and if I catch her in time is not averse to being sat on it, so don't think she is terrified or anything?
  
  Just can't wash pooey pants for much longer, sob!!

[Caz10]

Oh and should have said that when she does do a poo it pops out quite easily!

[curlywurlycremeegg]

I cant see why lactulose would work, it's a stool softener, she sounds like she is holding back because she is scared of having a bowel movement, if you say she has a normal bowel movement when she does finally go then I think lactulose will only make the "skitters" more messy. I haven't a magic wand, had this problem with DS1, he ended up asking for a nappy everytime he wanted a poo, and I ended up going with his request as he was holding back and making himself ill (literally very pale with big black circles under his eyes). One day I had run out of nappies, told him he would have to sit on the toilet, took forever but he finally had a poo and then there was no looking back. Is she able to vocalise any fears to you?

[Caz10]

No, that is where my frustration really is, she is VERY vocal and has a good vocabulary so in theory would be able to explain to me. She is very stubborn and will refuse to "sit and try" for both pees and poos, although she is now pretty good at telling me she needs a wee, albeit very last minute.

She has been ill like that before, pale, black eyes etc, but refuses a nappy. Also it is now not just a one a day poo, but this constant skittering...was almost hourly today, very wearing

She has previously sat on the loo and pooed so I don't know why she won't do it again.

Did your DS ever say why he didn't like it?

[curlywurlycremeegg]

I have no idea what the issue was, his speech wasn't as developed as your DD's sounds. Also he never even entertained the idea of a poo on the toilet, unlike your DD. I hope someone comes along who can help soon, I personally would avoid the lactulose though, I think if she had a really big "accident" because of it then it may put things back a lot further.

[nbee84]

Looked after a little boy like this.

I would read him his favourite stories while he sat on the toilet (on one of those seats that fits a child sized bum)

We would make up funny songs about poo! Shout to the poo that it was time to come out!

Anything to make them relax really.

He also got a chocolate coin when he'd performed

Have you tried star charts? Not a big one for them myself, but they work for some.

[sneezecakesmum]

If when DD poos it is a reasonable size and softness (not rabbit droppings) then it is not overflow and lactulose won't help. She is probably witholding and because the stool is nice and soft little watery bits are coming out, and basically she is just having the urge to go and holding on.!
Therefore it is behavioural and I haven't a clue what to do about it!
The usual answers - reward, praise, relaxed attitude (she's obviously not being naughty) trying to get into the mind of a 3 yo basically!

[mummytopebs]

My dd had chronic constipation from with holding from the age of 2, the only thing that worked was the miracle that is movicol as this is a softener and a pusher. If the stool is soft they will prob try to give you laxoberal next which is a pusher, but this gave dd horrible tummy cramps and made her sick. Ask for movicol it is by far the best, but they dont perscribe it straight away as it is more expensive.

When dd went on movicol we got some kind of rhythm in her poos, once a day but she had a poo phobia and would only go in a nappie in her room. She had to go to cahms to help get over this phobia and only came out of pooing in nappies when she was 5!!! It is a very difficult and hard situation but keep with it there is light at the end of the very long tunnel.

It doesnt sound like she has overflow, overflow is when the poo is completly impacted and they get diahorrhea. If the poo was impacted i imagine the gp would have sent to hospital as dc would have needed picolax (dd has had this 6 times) the first time she was severly impacted and hadnt pooed for 2 weeks!!!

Good luck and if you need any info just shout, we have done chronic constipation for 4 years :(

[Caz10]

Thank you all for so much poo chat! Never thought it would dominate my every waking moment quite so much....!

sneezecakesmum they are def not rabbit droppings, they are soft and sometimes quite sizeable! (great to clean up, blee). I just can't get over the frequency!!

We sit on the loo/potty whenever she shows signs, read books, sing songs, promise chocolate etc, but the problem is that a little bit of poo has already been skittered out by then, and the "biggie" never arrives!!

[cece]

This is what you need. And some movicol.

[katiepotatie]

Been having this same problem with my now 4 year old since she was 18 months old, I'm sorry there is no miracle cure My dd is on Movicol now after seeing consultant, and this keeps thing moving. But still withholding every so often. She is mostly doing a pig poo every night in a nappy. We have only ever had one poo on the potty, and praised her so much bought her a treat thinking we had made a huge breakthrough. It's soul destroying sometimes, but I am hopeful we'll get there eventually.(we've had the most success with sticker chart) Good luck [happy]

[cece]

Oh and sit on the potty/loo and get her to blow bubbles.

[mummytopebs]

If she will sit on the toilet the constipation nurse used to tey and get dd to blow bubbles as this makes you push at the same time if you see what i mean ~(try it lol)

[mummytopebs]

Cece great minds x

[Caz10]

Thank you all again.

Mummytopebs I posted my last post before I saw yours sorry, your information was very helpful. I feel that if we could get DD into some sort of pattern then we'd be ok, as she certainly is not terrified or phobic I don't think, having pooed on the loo or potty quite a few times before. She was absolutely delighted with herself the last time she did it, told everyone and lapped up all the praise (and chocolate!) so I don't understand why it is becoming a problem again.

The GP seemed pretty useless tbh and just agreed when I suggested impacted poo - did you get Movicol from your GP or did that have to come from a consultant?

[sneezecakesmum]

Thing is movicol is for constipation. a poo that is soft and sizeable is not a constipated poo.
Is the watery skitters, very dark brown and highly offensive? That is the typical overflow associated with constipation. If just brown and normal smell (i'm a nurse so can eat and discuss poo at any time!) then it is behavioural and giving movicol, lactulose with just result in semi diarrhoeal poos and not address the real problem ie she doesnt like to part with it!

[fivegomadinthelambingshed]

Definitely not alone, DD has this problem and is now five, she is like katiepotaties DD. She is on lactulose and senakot, she was prescribed movacol but for some reason was given the adult version and she won't touch the children's stuff. Be prepared for a long haul.

[Caz10]

sneezecakesmum the skitters were initially very dark, with almost black bits in it, which sounded like the overflow from what I had read. Now however they are just like very normal poo, except smaller and much more frequent, as if she is putting out her one daily poo amount in 5 or 6 little bits across the day!

I thought that if we continued on the lactulose it would force the issue so to speak, make it impossible for her to hold it in?

Is it possible for her to hold in all but a little bit of one big poo?!

katiepotato and fivegomad did this start with potty training for you too?

[mummytopebs]

You can get movicol from gp. It is still constipation if they are withholding and movicol makes them have an urge to push. DD is 6 now and has just started going a poo on her own on the toilet without us having to hold her hand. As soon as she started going on her own we reduced movicol and she has now been laxative free for 3 months :)

She gets a small present every friday if she has a poo everyday

Fivegomad and katiepotaties keep at it I speak from experience it is awful but all of a sudden it just kind of clicked with dd. Fivegomad you can mix movicol with icecream and yogurt etc and they dont know its there and also with juice, it dissolves completly and you keep it in the fridge for about 6 hours

[fivegomadinthelambingshed]

It was around potty training time, she never really got it but would always do one poo a day in her nappy at night, then she got constipated and it has been bad ever since, she will not poo in the loo and wets herslef constantly as she tries to keep the poo in.

[sneezecakesmum]

I suspect that with the initial dark water overflow she was a bit constipated and the hard poo was painful. This would explain why she is withholding even though the poos have returned to normal. (memories like elephants) lactulose would just worsen the situation imo if she is not constipated.

[sneezecakesmum]

mummytopebs well done. witholding and constipation in littluns is one of the most difficult and frustrating problems to solve! Once the hard poo, witholding cycle sets in it is the most awful of situations and lasts forever

[mandmsmummy]

I cant believe I saw this thread, I was just going to start a thread about the same thing.
Brief history, my DS is 5 and for a few weeks now has been getting the runs or pooing himself at school saying he doesnt get to the toilet in time. Sometimes he will poo 3 times in a day and 1 will be runny and the others fine. I have been told anout overflow and encopresis by a friend who works for nhs direct so went to the doc who isnt interested. he finally said i could get a sample to send off because i insisted but says he just needs training. I asked him for something to clear my son out during the holidays so we can retrain while hes at home but he refused. I feel frustrated as I really want to sort this for my DS but docs not interested. Should they be doing more?
x

[sneezecakesmum]

caz the most determined child can hold small bits of poo in, its a struggle, hence the 'face' etc, but she's obviously managing it

[madwomanintheattic]

our paed says toileting routine of sitting on the toilet for ten minutes after breakfast, and ten minutes after dinner.

ds1 still soils at 9 tho', so continue to do my bit on the pants washing front.

[sneezecakesmum]

mandsmummy. You can i believe buy laculose over the counter. It is very condensed sugar solution which pull water into the bowel making the stool bulkier and soft. I wouldnt advise suppositories,also otc, as it just puts a very unhealthy focus on the bottom end, when they already have issues. Witholding is such a big issue with kids