Parents of asthmatic children, please help!

[angel1976]

Hi all,

I have a lovely, beautiful 9 months old DS2 who is a really chilled out, calm and smiley baby. However, he seems to have a chronic cough / chest issues that's really causing sleepless nights all round! We finally have a referral to see a top paediatrican specialising in respirology but don't know when the appointment will come through. Just wanted some ideas from experienced parents what the possible cause is. His symptoms:

• Streaming nose with lots of clear mucus from birth. Don't think that has ever stopped once.

• Suffered from possible reflux in first six months, a lot of his vomit would consist of the normal milk / curdled milk but with a huge amount of clear mucus too.

• Chronic cough - started from birth but got really bad from about 4 months old. Mostly at night. He seems to get these 'episodes' of non-stop coughing (to the point of gagging / vomiting but not all the time) for anything from 30 minutes to 1.5 hours in middle of the night. He would 'sleep through' most of these episodes but is starting to get distressed by them. I would say he gets these episodes 2-3 times a night.

• Some wheeziness but not a lot. His chest does sound like a 'rattle' most days though.

• Poor weight gain, he is a tiny 7kgs. The last time he got weighed, he put on 2oz in 7 weeks.

After endless research, it's all pointing towards asthma though I know he is too young to be diagnosed. We have no pets. He is formula fed but down to only 3 feeds a day.

My DS1 was also slightly prone to have coughing episodes but nowhere near as bad as DS2! I keep hearing he will grow out of it but I am literally driven demented by having disturbed sleep most nights. When he doesn't have these coughs, he literally sleeps like a log all night and I can't imagine how bad these disturbed night sleeps are for him... Developmentally, he has no issues and is even more advanced than his brother... Also, I read the other asthma thread and it seems that children with asthma should be 'wheezy' and also prone to chest infections, which DS2 has never had. Can you have asthma without all the 'wheeze' and chest infections? I just don't know what to think anymore... He is having a nap now but I can hear him coughing away. Thanks for any advice or help you can all give.

[ValiumSingleton]

My children and I get the night coughs too.

My son is asthmatic and he's autistic, so I give him Ventolin before he goes to sleep to help get him through the night.

I don't know if you can give ventolin to a baby though but ask the doctor to prescribe him something like liquid ventolin. It's great.

My children also have inhalers, but they are more immediate. I felt like the ventolin was released more slowly so it would get them off to sleep.

[ValiumSingleton]

ps, my son was prescribed ventolin even though he has not yet been diagnosed as being asthmatic (i just know that he is though).

I mentioned him being on the spectrum only because he won't let me anywhere near him with the salamol inhaler/volumiser.

I am going to google and see at what age ventolin can be given to a baby.

[ValiumSingleton]

Well, it says refer to doctor if child under four years old, so clearly it can be given.

Liquid ventolin in a syringe is very easy to administer as well. I was giving it to my son from about twenty months on. Not every night, but only when he has 'bouts' ykwim. It does the trick and after a few nights of taking the liquid ventolin the night coughs go on their own. But without the ventolin, the night coughing would just go on and on and on for weeks!

[belledechocolatefluffybunny]

It sounds more like allergic rhinitis (sp?). Is there a carpet/teddy's/curtains in his bedroom? He could have asthma, but also an allergy to dust (not meaning your housekeeping needs work), the mucus/vomiting/poor weight gain is an indicator of a milk allergy, has this improved since he started weaning?

[angel1976]

Thanks for all your replies.

ValiumSingleton The GP actually prescribed liquid salbutamol for DS2. It does seem to work but once I stop the medication, the cough comes back very quickly. I'm concerned about its use as a friend told me it had steroids and shouldn't be prescribed to children unless they definitely have asthma. Also, the instructions say for children above 2 so I'm not keen to keep giving him that. Is Ventolin similar?

Pixie I have thought of CF but discounted that as he did have the heel prick test. Yes, cow's milk allergy has been suggested to me as well but to be fair, his symptoms have not really improved with weaning even though his milk feeds have dropped. He's never liked milk much in the first place.

Belle There is carpet / curtains in our room though no teddies. He only has a comforter (that was brand new and I washed it before giving it to him) to bed.

So it doesn't sound like asthma to you ladies? I mean I would be happier if it was something like cow's milk allergy rather than asthma but does that mean I just have to wait for him to grow out of it? Thanks all.

[belledechocolatefluffybunny]

Children don't grow out of a cow's milk allergy. If he's fully weaned then you can substitute his milk for soya milk and see how it goes, calcium is found in foods aswell as dairy products, brocoli for example. I'd hoover the bedroom daily, a blind is easier to keep free of dust then curtains, don't make his cot when he wakes and open the windows. Any pets?

Asthma's difficult to diagnose in very small children, it does sound more like an allergy to be honest, it doesn't mean he might not have asthma though.

[belledechocolatefluffybunny]

Thankyou Pixie

[angel1976]

Thank you. I was just taking in the washing and was already thinking that I will give DS2 the Salbutamol tonight as I can't face another night of him coughing...

Belle I wish I had the guts to take away the cow's milk! But because he is so little and already he doesn't drink much milk, I just can't bring myself to take away the cow's milk as effectively, that is his main source of calories at the moment. He eats like a little bird too so it's not as if I feel he eats enough not to need his milk. When we were in France earlier in the year, he had a really bad cold and the doctor actually prescribed him a lactose-free formula but he had a swig of that and it was mouth no-thank-you clamped shut!

Pixie Thanks for that. I will be giving it to him tonight. He only has half a dose (2.5ml) and I don't ever give it to him in the day, just before his bedtime. Will hopefully give him a bit of a break tonight.

We have no pets. I've thought of getting in a professional carpet cleaning company to do the carpets but looks like we are putting the house on the market very soon so I might just make sure the house we buy has no carpets! It's a relief to hear other people's opinions that he doesn't have asthma though... Like I said, he does have an appointment (hopefully!) with a paediatrician very soon so fingers crossed. I just hope he doesn't have anything 'sinister'! Thanks again.

[angel1976]

Thank you. I was just taking in the washing and was already thinking that I will give DS2 the Salbutamol tonight as I can't face another night of him coughing...

Belle I wish I had the guts to take away the cow's milk! But because he is so little and already he doesn't drink much milk, I just can't bring myself to take away the cow's milk as effectively, that is his main source of calories at the moment. He eats like a little bird too so it's not as if I feel he eats enough not to need his milk. When we were in France earlier in the year, he had a really bad cold and the doctor actually prescribed him a lactose-free formula but he had a swig of that and it was mouth no-thank-you clamped shut!

Pixie Thanks for that. I will be giving it to him tonight. He only has half a dose (2.5ml) and I don't ever give it to him in the day, just before his bedtime. Will hopefully give him a bit of a break tonight.

We have no pets. I've thought of getting in a professional carpet cleaning company to do the carpets but looks like we are putting the house on the market very soon so I might just make sure the house we buy has no carpets! It's a relief to hear other people's opinions that he doesn't have asthma though... Like I said, he does have an appointment (hopefully!) with a paediatrician very soon so fingers crossed. I just hope he doesn't have anything 'sinister'! Thanks again.

[belledechocolatefluffybunny]

The thing with a milk allergy is that the milk makes them ill so they don't want to eat anything else. I really would try swapping it, at least for a few days and see how it goes.

[belledechocolatefluffybunny]

Ta Pixie. I've not contacted the firm you suggested yet, it's not far from the new school though which is good. I'm nervous I think.

Sorry for the hijack angel.

[suiledonne]

Hi angel, my dd1 has asthma and has been taking Ventolin when needed since she was about 17 months.

My dd had the classic chest infections/wheeze/struggle to breath as a smaller baby and was diagnosed with asthma at 19 months.

The streaming nose sounds allergy related.

As far as I know there is a connection between reflux and coughing in babies so that is something to have checked as it does seem to tie in with your ds coughing when lying down.

Also I would say if you have been prescribed a medication that works then I would use it. Did the doctor say how often it was ok to use it? With dd1 we were told to use the medication as needed.

I hope your appointment comes up soon.

hth

[lukewarmcupoftea]

We have both cmp allergy and asthma here. Sounds like it could well be cmp allergy. Unless you take away all the dairy in his diet, you can't possibly say that it isn't this. Depending on where you live, it should be a relatively simple matter for your gp to refer you for tests.

Allergies and asthma often go hand in hand so I really do think you should push for this. But also continue to follow up the asthma lone of enquiry as well.

As he is under two, milk substitutes (eg calcium enriched soya milk) are not suitable, so you really do need to go for tests and be prescribed a hypoallergenic formula if necessary. Alternatives for butter, milk chocolate etc are easily found (but not cheese really).

[MistyB]

I would ask for a referral to an allergy consultant and carry on with down the respirologist route as well.

If it were mine, I would also go down the alternative medicine routes as you may find some answers / solutions there too. I do think it sounds like milk could be a problem and I would stop to see if you get an improvement.

I would see a kinesiologist to test for food intolerences (more difficult to test for using conventional medicine and difficult to do the on / off testing with babies IMO) on the main offenders (dairy, eggs, wheat, nuts, tomatoes, yeast, citrus, bananas, chocolate). I would also see a homeopath to see if you can reduce the incidence / severity of coughs etc and boost his immune system and a cranial osteopath with pediatric training who help strenghten his immune system and also relieve some of the muscular strains associated with coughing among other things.

IMO, no one person has the complete answer and it is found in several places.

[lukewarmcupoftea]

Doh, line of enquiry

In answer to your other question, yes you can have asthma where the only symptom is coughing, rather than wheezing/chest infections. But the other symptoms (mucus, reflux etc) sound indicative of a food intolerance/allergy.

[BalloonSlayer]

Have you tried propping up the head end of his cot with phone books under each leg.Can sometimes help with mucousy coughs.

[angel1976]

Hi all,

Thanks. He has had a small dose of Salbutamol and has gone to bed per normal but I can hear the occasional cough. I am so tired. Last night, at some point, DS2 ended up in bed (I can't even remember, just remembered I woke up with him next to me! DH now sleeping downstairs cos he needs a good night's sleep for work.).

suiledonne He does seem to sleep better when he is on his side but once he turns on his back, he starts coughing. He slept on his front from 9 weeks old as he never settled on his back. But this can't go on as he rolls a lot and no matter how much I 'barricade' him, I find him in weird positions perilously close to the bed edge!

luke On one hand, I would be happy if it is just a cmp allergy as it means it is NOT asthma but will warrant a whole change of lifestyle. Do I need a referral to see a kinesiologist? I will check out the homeopath too. I will need to find a recommendation for a cranial osteopath as I went to one for DS1 and I wasn't convinced it helped DS1 (he was ventouse and had torticollis).

BalloonSlayer I used to do the propping thing but DS2 just ends up sideways all scrunched up at the bottom of the cot and that didn't help really. I am toying with the idea of giving him a cot pillow as when I have brought him into bed with me, he does seem to breathe easier propped up on my pillow...

Thanks for all your suggestions. I will be pursuing some of the routes suggested...

[lukewarmcupoftea]

Good lord, don't waste your money on kinesiology or any of that quackery. A cmp allergy (or any other potential allergy or intolerance he might have) is best diagnosed and dealt with via the nhs. Go see your gp and get a referral to your local paediatric allergy consultant. Seriously, don't bugger around, these things can really affect your childs health and should be dealt with properly. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but there are a lot of people out there making a lot of money and making people lead very restrictive diets for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

And no, an allergy doesn't mean a whole lifestyle change. You soon get used to what products you can and can't eat. Don't be scared to chat to your gp about this, and if he's not helpful, keep asking for a second opinion until you get a referral.

[angel1976]

luke Like I said in OP, we have a referral to see a top paediatrican with a speciality in respirology, is allergy testing something he will do in his investigations? We are very lucky in that we have a close friend working in a NHS hospital where this doctor is working and I was able to get my GP to refer to this specific doctor. I'm really hoping my appointment will come through very soon... Or should I go back to GP to get another referral?

[MistyB]

I would go back and ask for a specific referral to an allergy consultant as the respirologist may need to refer you after your consultation and this may take extra time. Talk to your GP and see what they think.