Car seats on buggies

[LambChopsMcGee]

Hiya

So, I'm pretty ignorant about car seats (we don't have a car, and were given the one we have so didn't do a lot of research).

We have the maxi cosi cabrio (I think) and it goes on our pram base when needed, which is great.

DD is getting big and we will need the next sauce of seat, or I was thinking of these ones that you can use for years (seeing as we only use it when visiting family or on holiday etc)

We need the sort that attaches with a seat best, not isofix.

Can anyone tell me if these later stage car seats can be attached to the pram base? I'm guessing not, given the angle and things, but advice from knowledgeable mumsnetters welcome!

Also any general advice on getting our next car seat. DD is about 11kg at 10 months.. She's 98th centile height and weight...

Thank you!

[LambChopsMcGee]

*next stage, not sauce!
*Seat belt, not best


Sigh!!

[welshweasel]

No they don't!

[dafffyduck]

Pretty sure it's only the first size car seats that can attach to the pram chassis, and they have to be a compatible part of the travel system.

[Figgygal]

Nope they don't they are fixed in and it's so bloody annoying when used to pooping them on the buggy and getting a decent sleep out of them

[welshweasel]

General advice. First need to decide if you want to keep her rear facing or not. Personally I don't understand why you wouldn't (5 times safer to be rear facing). Then it's really just a case of how much you want to spend and checking it if it's your car. I recommend it on all these sorts of threads but the joie every stage is a great seat. It's usually £150 on offer but will do your DD until they no longer need a car seat at all. Very easy to fit and move between cars.

[BertieBotts]

No such thing I'm afraid OP.

Only one point of advice, are you sure she's outgrowing it? Without a car you're better off sticking with the most portable kind of seat for as long as possible. Many babies can still fit into the maxi cosi until 18 months or so. 13kg is the top weight limit, but most babies outgrow in height first. When the top of her head reaches the edge of the plastic shell then she's too tall. Until that point she is okay, it doesn't matter if her legs are hanging off the end (or if you can lift it )

Personally I would not recommend an all-in-one seat for the next stage. I think as a non driver this ends up as a false economy as what you really need is a seat which is non bulky, inexpensive and easy to fit in many different cars. The combination ones seem like a great idea because you only have to buy one seat, but they are often expensive and bulky and difficult to fit, so complete nos for all of the usual criteria.

So I'd recommend you find the simplest, smallest decent Group 1 seat that you can, and then when she outgrows that, get a simple but decent high backed booster. You don't save much money at all on buying them together (often it's more expensive!) and the two separate models are less hassle.

On Group 1 seats, as a non driver, I really liked the Kiddy seats which have an impact cushion rather than a 5 point harness. I found them really lightweight and easy to use and I felt it was safer than a harnessed seat since I couldn't realistically get a rear facing seat.

If that is out of budget or doesn't appeal, there are some excellent low-priced trustworthy but basic Group 1 models on the market. Look out for deals on the Maxi-Cosi Priori, Graco Coast, Britax Eclipse or Britax Prince, as these models often come up for around £60.

If you do decide to go for a multi-group seat or you'd like the option to keep your child rear facing (an excellent safety choice if you can make it) the Joie seats seem excellent at this job. The Joie Elevate is the cheapest one as a Group 1/2/3 but it's very upright which means it might not be very good for a one year old. It doesn't offer rear facing. The cheapest one which offers rear facing and should fit for several years is the Joie Stages.

Hope that gives some research starting points and options, anyway! :)

[LambChopsMcGee]

Wow! Thanks all for your replies and thorough advice!
I'll make sure and check whether she's outgrown the current seat and then look into the ones you have recommended. Thanks so much!

[AliceMum09]

If you go for any of the seats suggested so far then you are going to have a big problem when your taller-and-heavier-than-average baby outgrows it when she's only just turned 3. Then you will be faced with either buying another seat with a 5-point harness that goes up to 25kgs (all the ones suggested so far are outgrown at 18kgs), or putting her in a high backed booster with the seatbelt securing her (not safe at all for a child under 4 1/2 years old no matter how heavy they are, their pelvic bones develop with age not weight and a younger child is at risk of slipping down under the lap belt in a collision. Not to mention the child needs to be mature enough to sit still and upright within the seat for the entire journey).

You best bet would be a Britax Two Way Elite - it's very versatile, will fit any car and will keep a tall and heavy child rear facing until they are about 5. It's outgrown at 25kgs or when the eyes/tops of the child's ears are level with the top edge of the seat. This is my 5 year old in the seat, she's quite small for her age. You can have the seat a lot more reclined than this for a younger baby. You can only buy it from the In Car Safety Centre in the UK, I got mine from Finland cheaper but I knew I wasn't going to need any help fitting it. However when you've fitted it a couple of times it's simple.

[BertieBotts]

Sigh. A high backed booster is safe for a three year old. The pelvis thing is completely unproven, the belt just needs to go flat across their thighs rather than the lower part of the stomach. The main problem with 3yos in boosters is that they aren't easily trusted not to wriggle out of the seatbelt. But for a family who rarely travels by car, it's likely to be enough of a novelty that this isn't an issue. When you don't have a car yourself the priority is usually to have a lightweight and low hassle seat for as much of the time as possible which means minimising the time in a group 1 style seat of any kind.

[AliceMum09]

Each step up in car seat groups is a step down in safety, and advising anyone to minimise the time their child spends in a Group 1 seat is something I can't believe I'm actually reading.

[Lenny1980]

We recently got a Britax Duo as our portable car seat. It can use both isofix or seat belt installations. It only goes forward facing but I couldn't find any that you could fit with a seat belt that would go rear racing.

[BertieBotts]

Yes it is a step down. But a car seat that a child is within the approved weight and age range for the child is safe. Just because something else is safer, it doesn't make another car seat unsafe.

I wouldn't suggest putting a small 3 year old in a booster but one who fits correctly and is over 15kg, yes, it's okay. It's not ideal, and I agree that rear facing would be the best solution, but it's not practical for everyone, and it doesn't help to go around spreading scaremongering misinformation.

Please, feel free to share information about the pelvis thing which isn't that one picture on facebook or strange American blog posts, and I'll reassess but I've looked at this before and I can't find any proper evidence for it at all.

[AliceMum09]

"Because seatbelts were designed
based on an adult's pelvic anatomy, the underdeveloped iliac crests
of a child's pelvis do not properly support the anchoring points for
a lap belt." That's from here cme.lww.com/files/SeatbeltSyndromeinChildren-1487173325959.pdf

chiro-trust.org/whiplash/car-accidents-chiropractic-children/ This mentions multiple times "pelvic height", "submarining" and states repeatedly that children aged 4-9 are at great risk of the lap part of the seatbelt slipping up off the pelvis. It won't let me copy and paste the text though, so I can't pick out the relevant bits unfortunately. And it doesn't specifically say that these risks are still as great if the child is sitting on a booster (as opposed to sitting with no child restraint/booster at all).
Still, there is plenty of evidence that children should remain in a 5-point harness until they are at least 4 years old. The OP doesn't sound like they need a seat that can quickly be moved in and out of taxis "I was thinking of these ones that you can use for years (seeing as we only use it when visiting family or on holiday etc)" so a 25kgs rear facing harnessed seat is going to be the safest option and worth a small amount of time installing it to ensure that the child is as safe as possible. The Two Way Elite is fairly lightweight, and I've seen photos of people carrying it rucksack-style using the tether straps so it seems quite easy to transport. Possibly easier than a high backed booster and certainly lighter than most forward facing Group 1 seats.

[AliceMum09]

There is also some information here based on a crash test that VTI in Sweden carried out with a 3 year old dummy in a high backed booster www.facebook.com/ErfMission/photos/a.190471111123808.1073741831.151654968338756/811056042398642/?type=3&theater

[JigglyTuff]

You do know there's bugger all evidence for chiropractice AliceMum09 right? It's an alternative therapy

[BertieBotts]

You know that whole first document talks about seatbelt syndrome aka the prevalence of injury in kids using a seatbelt/lap belt only, rather than a booster. It's not comparing boosters to harnessed seats, it's comparing seatbelts to boosters.

Your second link is not a reputable source, though it seems well referenced, but again, refers to the dangers of simply using a seatbelt, rather than the "dangers" of a booster when compared to a harnessed seat.

Then, as predicted, your last link is a facebook post.

The TWE is a great seat, but it's also £200. That's a crazy amount of money for occasional use, when you can get a decent Group 1 seat for £60 and a booster for £30 which would be much more practical.

However not a bad thing for OP to be aware of options and if rear facing/harnessing is important to her perhaps it's one of the more practical choices in that direction.

[AliceMum09]

Yes it's a Facebook link, but the owner of the page hasn't made up her own crash tests and taken the photos herself! It's based on actual crash testing and very well-respected Swedish research www.vti.se/en/

I for one would rather have my 3 year old uninjured in a crash rather than left hanging out of their high backed booster as in the 'after' photo.

Anyway, there's lots of info out there for anyone to be able to make their own decisions.