WWYD Kiddy guardianfix pro or Britax Kidfix?

[carhelp]

Don't think we will have room for the Kidfix SICT. I will have to turn him forward due to ds2 and he is 15 kg.

kiddy guardianfix
pros:
Impact shield - better forsleeping (worried about hie slumping forward in a seat belt) - take this away at 18 kg
Halfway house between rear facing and forward facing

cons:
Not as much side impact as the kidfix?
More expensive

Britax Kidfix:
pros:
Better side impact (ie covers whole body, not just head and shoulders)
Bigger seat area

ps it's for a Ford Focus 2009 model) does anyone have one of these seats in their car and does it fit?

Thank you in advance!

[justforinfo]

So is the child your moving forward ERF at the minute? If so what seat? And is it because DS2 is outgrowing another seat that DC1 is moving up? and if so weight for DC1 and seat he/she is in? :) (I'll be able to advise you better if I have this info)
Kat
Child Seat Safety Place

[ouryve]

Oddly, I've just come here looking for opinions on the kidfix. For an older child, though, outgrowing his harnessed SN seat.

I don't know if the guardianfix is any better, but there was a big hoo ha in the US about shield type seats a few years back because they don't add as much safety as you would think, merely give something for a child to smash their face in in a collision. Something you may want to keep in mind. The shield will also do nothing to protect the child's neck from strong forces, so is not as safe as rear facing for a young child.

[carhelp]

In my car, he's backwards facing in a Britax Two Way Elite. In the other car (parents' car) he will need to turn forwards as all of the drivers are very different heights and ds2 is now moving into ds1's ERF seat.

Keep thing Kiddy is the way to go, then thinking is there much point paying for the shield at this point anyway - he might as well just move to thebooster...

[justforinfo]

Hmmm you have got a dilemma there haven't you! Firstly, as ouryve has rightly said more stringent crash testing shows that impact shield seats do not offer as much extra protection as previously thought.

The dummy used to crash test the seat does not register the forces at play on the child so therefore cannot indicate how much damage the child will endure - it is also only crash tested to R44.04 series which only requires a 30 mph collision (its actually tested in 'g' forces but it roughly equates to a 30mph crash)
However, when the impact shield seat has been crash tested at a higher 'g' - roughly 40mph, the test dummy smashed its face on the impact sheild registering horrendous forces and the impact shield snapped the dummies back. The reason this is not publicised information is because it is not an officially recognised test and the seat passed the EU regs.

So... my advice:

Safest:
Buy another TWE for DS2 and keep DS1 rear facing to the full 25kg. If you are now at a point where you really do want him front facing then you can fit the TWE front facing and keep DS1 harness up to 25kg. - He is safest rear facing, as you know, however front facing harnessed is MUCH safer than putting him in a high backed booster!

Safe:
Move DS2 into TWE
If you DO NOT have ISOfix:
Get the Britax Evolva - can harness to 18kg (safer than HBB) then it will convert to a high back - and a good quality high back at that.

If you DO have ISOfix - have you considered this group 1-2-3? ISOfix with harness to 18kg then converts to a high back.

Not Recommended:
Move DS2 into DS1 TWE
Britax Kidfix (or Kid if you don't have ISOfix)


Just because DS1 is 15 kg it doesn't mean he has to go in a high backed booster, again just because DS2 is maybe 9kg it doesn't mean he has to move up either.

He should only be put in a high backed booster if he has outgrown the harnessed seat by height (eyes level with top of seat - for DS2: outgrows Group 0 when max weight reached or top of head at top of seat)

Hope this helps!

[justforinfo]

as in all cases with child seats make sure the seat fits the car :)

[carhelp]

Than you for that. I had heard something about problemswith impact shields, but I haven't been ableto find anything more about it on the web.

I did read (on a Swedish site - via Google translate!) an interesting article on the loads on the neck in the event of an accident - ie 5-point seats are better when rear-facing, but 3 when forwards, as a 5-point harness nolds the shoulders back and the head lunges forwards, whereas with a 3 point belt, there is more 'ride down' time therefore putting less stress on the neck. This made me cautious about using the TWE forwards facing... Do you know anything about this?

Thank you again for taking your time to reply.

[carhelp]

here's the link

And Goodle translate:

3 - or 5-point harness?
We have a 4-year-old girl who goes back in a Britax Two-Way. When she is too long we have to turn the car seat. The seat is equipped with a 5-point harness, which of course use when the seat is installed rear facing. The manual says that it is okay to use 5-point belt even in forward-facing skiing. I would now like to know which is best for safety, that the forward-facing rides use 3 - or 5-point harness?
Answer:
NTF recommends that you only use the car's three-point seatbelt to restrain the child and car seat.

With the car seat belt is still so increases the burden on the child's neck and head in a collision, and even during heavy braking. The belt is back and the shoulders and the force generated moves upwards towards the head.

With the car's three-point makes it a better interaction between the belt and the seat and the child, a softer deceleration of the baby's body and the power is distributed over a larger area, the entire upper body.

[justforinfo]

hmmm, it's slightly confusing - is it talking about a 3 point harness.... it looks like it's talking about a 3 point seatbelt?

The harness is safer than the seatbelt as it spreads the force of the crash out more, with a 3 point seatbelt your not only running the risk of internal bleeding resulting from an impact due to the seatbelt being compressed over the soft abdominal area, but also there is a risk of the child 'submarining' under the adult seat belt.

I can't understand how a 3-point harness would be safer than a 5-point harness, even infant carriers are being equipped with 5 points now. The 3 point harness will only spread the force in 3 directions and a 5 point in 5...so a 5 point will technically put less strain across the shoulders and as such the neck.

TBH i'm not 100% sure of this answer but I will ask a guy I know at Britax on monday what he thinks :)

(I would also think that as Britax have insisted on 5-points in their seats - and they crash test to much higher forces - then it is safer than a 3-point)

[carhelp]

I had assumed they meant the 3-point car seat belt (not the 3-point car seat belt that you find in baby car seats)...

Thank you for spending your time on this! I just wish there were a definite answer...

[justforinfo]

Well, harness is definately safer than the adult seatbelt :) without a doubt!

[carhelp]

Did you speak to your friend at Britax?

Thanks

[justforinfo]

Waiting for a reply :)

[QueenOfFeckingEverything]

WRT to the American hoohah about impact shields - I have been researching this as considering a Kiddy seat for DS (ERF not an option for us for various reasons - cost, multiple cars to fit into, DP being dyspraxic and having difficulty fitting seats, etc). Anyway, I found this which explains the issues.

But - the seats they are discussing actually also have a 5 point harness attached to a rigid shield/tray that holds the harness a few inches away from the child's body, meaning the harness is not actually tight enough and in a crash the child's body can gain enough momentum to hit the shield with considerable force. The shield is some sort of 'additional' thing to a harness, which of course isn't going to be effective if not tight - and the shields they are showing actually prevent the harness from being tightened properly.

So not sure that it is the same with the Kiddy seats.

[QueenOfFeckingEverything]

That is to say, the Kiddy impact shields are meant to sit snug and tight against the child - not be positioned a few inches away like the American shield seats in the safety advice linked above.

They aren't really comparable.

[justforinfo]

The impact shields are safer than harnessed according to the EU crash test, which being crash tested at 30mph with a dummy that doesn't measure what the forces of the crash do to a child doesn't really give a true indication. When crash tested at a higher speed/force with a test dummy that DOES test the damage inflicted on the child the impact shield isn't as much safer as it's made out to be - at least not a higher forces. An impact shield may be a better option for you with having to move it about lots but I certainly wouldn't buy it on the basis of it being 'safer'. Maybe it'll be safer for the people using it, as it's so much easier to fit properly. You can have the fanciest and best tested seat in the world but if it's not fitted properly it's not going to do it's job!

Anyway, answer to 5-point compared to 3 point seatbelt - 5 point is safer

It goes like this:

Everyone in the vehicle should be rearfacing, but this makes it a bit difficult to drive!
The next best thing is to have every passenger secured with a 5 point harness - for example formula 1 drivers have a 6 point harness. The more straps you've got securing you to the seat the better.
However - the amount of people that would not use a 5-point seatbelt correctly is far too high so it is better to have a not as safe 3 point that will be used correctly and therefore more effective in a larger amount of crashes.

Makes sense when you stop and think about it really. In an ideal world we'd all be switched on and making sure we had the safest of everything but alot of people don't have time to check seatbelts etc, at least with a 3-point you clunk and go!

Hope this helps with your decision, PM me if you want any more help :)

[LittleB]

I have the kiddy comfort pro as I couldn't fit rear facing for a variety of reasons and it was the best fit I could find for my car (had buckle crunch on several others). It has the bolster which fits up against ds. I think its brilliant, very easy to fit and fit ds into, even when he is wriggling! It got top scores on the which safety test, which is partly due to ease of fitting. I love the fact that ds is so comfy, he doesn't slump when he sleeps, theres a strap on the front of the bolster I can tie toys too and ds plays with them on the bolster to keep him happy (only soft toys!). I didn't like it when I looked online, but having seen him in it in the shop I was converted. It is expensive but should last until hes 12ish. Just thought an opinion from someone who had one might help! I'd definitely buy it again.