6 Week Old Distressed after feeds etc - trapped wind, reflux, silent reflux........anyone able to advise????

[looneytune]

Well, I typed a very long and in detail post and was right near the end and lost the lot . I now have to bath ds2 shortly so I'll just make it quick this time and maybe add to it later.

Basically, ds2 was a very chilled and sleepy baby for 9 days and then from day 10, has been causing us concern with his painful screams that just break our hearts. I'm a childminder who has looked after several very small babies so I'm fully aware that babies cry etc. but both myself and dh feel that ds2 is SCREAMING in pain and we just can't comfort him when he gets into one of his states.

Some things he does which may give some clues to the problem:

• feeds very fast (done in 5 mins, 10 mins MAX), can hear him gulping it down so not sure if that means swallowing more air?
• doesn't always bring his wind up or sometimes just not very well.
• strains down below and cries out a lot as trying to get the wind out the bottom end
• screams in pain (a lot!) and gets himself in such a state sometimes and gets a cold sweat from it.
• makes funny noises at times which are really hard to explain but like the sound just before throwing up, that type of thing
• foamy at the mouth quite often. Atm he does have the snuffles so is quite mucasy but sure he was doing this before. I'm pretty sure at times it's like he's brought something up but nothing comes out
• hardly ever posits or is sick unlike ds1 but then last night he was laying in his moses basket all quiet and then projectile vomited and it shot up then landed back in the moses basket and it really shocked me (he seemed happy after that though, strangely). He was sick bad like this once before, weeks ago, and it wasn't after a feed or anything and was really curdled
• mostly prefers to be upright, doesn't really like being laid flat or at least not for a long time after a feed. we have his moses basket raised to help this
• I'm sure he also over feeds at times for comfort.

That's all I can think of right now, need to go and sort the kids but if anyone has any idea what the problem might be, I'd be very grateful.

TIA

p.s. he saw an osteopath a few weeks ago for a couple of sessions and he sorted his reverse curve (made big difference to his body shape) and also saw cranial osteopath on Thursday who said he may be suffering from the tightness she could feel due to his fast birth. We're going back to her on Tuesday for another session

[RubySlippers]

my DS had silent relflux - a few red flags are:

preferring being upright
screaming
struggling with waht appears to be wind
comfort feeder

I would take him to your GP to discuss your concerns

[moondog]

Bottle or breast?
Either way, sounds likeclassic colic.
Deep sympathies,.we suffered with this for 10weeks

[headzookeeper]

My ds1 ds3 was exactly same couldn't be settled and couldnt be laid flat. I was told by my hv to go and buy infacol and dr browns bottles omg the diffrence in them was amazing. especially ds3. He suddenly became this sunny little thing as opposed to this tiny redfaced screaming little bundle he had been. I could have kissed my hv after that.I even found a nice sympathetic dr in my surgery that would prescribe me infacol on repeat prescription when I told her the reults. So if it works might be an idea to ask your ow dr for it.

[looneytune]

Rubyslippers - thanks for that. Took him to GP on Thursday who was pretty useless and admitted it sounded like it could be silent reflux and recommended I put him in his car seat after winding to help his position (even though I thought we shouldn't do that). He didn't recommend anything else but I've got our 6 wk check on Tuesday with another Dr and will push more with this.

moondog - breast fed (apart from a one off bottle of EBM last week). I did think it was colic to start with but he can scream for 4/5 hours at a time sometimes and it's not just wind that seems to bother him - lot of gagging and stuff too but maybe it is just colic.

[looneytune]

headzookeeper - so pleased it helped you. I've tried dentinox colic drops which I was told was basically the same as infacol but even when the wind did come up, he still seemed the same. My major problem with this is that he spits it out no matter how small bit at a time you do it. The only way I managed him to swollow it once was by laying him flat down and giving it him whilst he was screaming but it only worked once and then he still managed to spit it out but also sort of chokes on it and I hate doing that to him when it's not doing anything anyway. I've heard Dr Browns bottles are great and if I start using bottles then I'll be getting those ones

[pudding25]

Sounds more like reflux. Can you ask to be referred to a gastro pediatrician?

[looneytune]

Thanks pudding, will ask for referral on Tues at the checkup. I just hope they will refer as my experience of GPs is not good!

[headzookeeper]

I think from memory that infacol is a long term thing, that builds up over a period of time to help. The dentinox is like gripe water not very pleasant and to try and bring wind up straight away.

[looneytune]

Just to add......I've noticed this a couple of times but thought it was some reaction to the sudacrem (I use as he kept suffering from thrush) but I know I didn't put any on the last nappy change so it's definitely not that.........sometimes, not often but sometimes, he has the normal runny poo but bits of sort of gritty/powdery bits in his nappy too. Not big amounts or anything but noticeable and I'm curious to know what that's all about - any ideas?

[looneytune]

Oh, so infacol is different is it? Might try that if needed though I must say the last few feeds he's brought up his wind very well. He tends to be worse when sleepy but of course I can't give him that after a feed when sleepy either. Do you give that one BEFORE a feed and if so, does it have to be a set time before (as that would be hard as he gets fed on demand).

[headzookeeper]

ah just found the paper i was given it wasn't the infacol i was thinking of sorry, It was called colief. not sure if it can be used with breast feeding as couldn't feed any of mine myself, but might be worth looking into. Especially if you do go to bottles eventually. as it is magic stuff.

[CarGirl]

infant gaviscon is harmless enough to try for a few days in a row to help rule out/rule in reflux or silent reflux.

My dd developed silent reflux at 6.5 weeks they were still telling me it was a touch of colic when she was 6 months old and only slept 8 out of 24 hours per day and screamed an awful lot.

[headzookeeper]

and no it just before every feed one small dropperful for infacol. it tastes like oranges as well. Its midnight when youve dripped it on your hand and you cant drag your knackered bum outa bed. you know the one.

[looneytune]

Thanks zookeeper, will look into that. Sorry you couldn't feed yourself

Cargirl - will ask about that at Drs. Ds can scream and scream and even when he's tired so then he ends up overtired which makes him even more upset!! BUT....I must say.....we've been pretty lucky at night and USUALLY he sleeps between 6-9 hours (7-10 hrs between feeds) so not sure if that means it can't be silent reflux? Did yours used to make funny sort of gasping noises and then be bubbly at the mouth at all? It's just he does this noise a lot but it's hard to put into words what it sounds like.

[CarGirl]

I can't remember it was such a traumatic time it is mainly blocked from my memeory! She used to often wake up screaming and then you would sit her up and then the big burp would come up and then she would do it a couple of hours later. She always slept at night okay would you down 8ish be unsettled until 11ish and then thru til 6ish but she didn't sleep during the day.........

[Poppycake]

Hi - dd2 was a colicky baby. I used infacol (also bf'd on demand) and it seemed to helpa bit, but still she basically screamed from 7-11 every night for 3 months. I used to put dd2 to bed while dp walked around the garden/living room/lunatic asylum listening to the bloodcurdling wails.

But she stopped! By five months we could put her down at 7pm without a murmur.

Was awful to listen to, but once everyone had told me that it was just colic (lucky that I have several medical friends I could ask) we knew we just had to ride it through together. She still is a very huggy little girl, and I wonder is this down to being hugged and swayed so much when she was tiny.

Oh yes - she used to bring up so much dribble that we had to get a special cream to put round her neck and chest to stop her getting an itchy rash. Not sure I would call it bubbly exactly tho.

[BigBadMousey]

My DS (9wo) is like this and has been for some time.

HVs have said it isn't silent reflux unless he is projectile vomiting after every feed

I came acrossthis and this which has some good points. You may have already seen it but if not it's well worth a look IMO.

Hope you get some answers soon.

[CarGirl]

NO NO NO

The classic thing about silent reflux is the lack of vomiting - it is them bringing up acid into their throat which is agony because the valve is a bit leaky and they are producing too much stomach acid (I think)

Reflux (without the silent bit) always has the vomiting.

[BigBadMousey]

Well that is what I thought (hence the ). That said, he does projectile vomit on at least one occassion per week (usually after a very fretful feed)

[CarGirl]

I would go and see your gp instead of your HV in the end I went to the GP again and just asked if we could try gaviscon to def rule out silent reflux and it worked within 2 days

I was also referred to the hospital and the registrar was awful, he told me dd was overweight (98th centile for height and weight) and argued with me when I questioned his logic and then he patronised me further by trying to tell me what the centiles mean (I did statistics at uni) Sorry I am ranting!!

[ib]

Gaviscon won't necessarily work if the reflux is very bad - did nothing for ds, but a ph probe demonstrated conclusively he had really really bad reflux.

He had to go on Omeprazole and metoclopramide. Worth a go on the Gaviscon, but don't rule out reflux even if he does not respond.

Ds also used to sleep fair stretches every so often. Paediatric gastro said it was because they shut down every so often to conserve energy. Not necessarily good news

[CarGirl]

yes I think the sleep thing is what my dd did between 12pm & 7am I think she probably had 4 night feeds ever from the age of 2 weeks, hence I knew there was something not right.

[mybabywakesupsinging]

ds1 had reflux which was "silent". From about 2 weeks he cried a lot and couldn't be put down. It got worse and worse until by 6 weeks he only slept for 20 mins at a time, al day and night. GP said all babies cry and it was the change to spring weather. Eventually (I am a doctor but not a paediatrician) it occurred to me the if an adult screamed with pain on lying down I would consider reflux, so I: held him upright for 30 mins after every feed, cut all caffeine from my diet (that had a big effect) and put the Oxford Textbook of Medicine under the head of his cot. Within a week he was sleeping 4 hours between feeds and MUCH happier. I wish I had thought of it sooner. He went on to develop projectile vomiting at about 4 months which lasted till 18 months -even solids didn't stop it completely. His weight was always on the 50th centile (and still is age 3) it doesn't have to be low.

[looneytune]

Just had quick update but can't type much right now as about to feed him......does caffiene make that much difference then??!! I have 2 cups of tea in the morning, maybe 3 if I'm desperate. I thought this was ok as was fine with ds1 but if this could be linked then I'll stop altogether (would rather not but needs must)

[ib]

I found caffeine made a difference and also milk products.