expressing milk - bfing experts needed

[helpafriend]

my friends baby is FTT and the mws asked her to express some milk. they said that they could only see fore milk but no hind milk and that's why the baby wasn't putting on weight so she should switch to formula. is that right?

[MarsLady]

also check out hunker's blog How Breastfeeding Works

How old is the baby?

[andiem]

no do they have magic eyes that can test the quality of the milk

and the fore milk hind milk thing is not true the milk changes so gradually it is not like it is semi skimmed one minute and then double cream comes out

what your friend needs to do is see a bfc she needs the help of someone who knows something about bf and can assess the latch milk transfer etc not just look at the milk

the problems can be serious if the baby is not gaining weight so she does need help

[GordontheGopher]

Expressed milk does separate very clearly into to parts, the top part being the creamy hind part, so they may have a point. But some women just don't express well so the baby could be getting the hind milk.

[kiskideesameanoldmother]

yes. midwives are talking crap.

how old is your friend's baby?

is she offering one or both breasts at each feed?

is the baby generally content after feeds and producing enough wet and poopy nappies?

you have given too little info to give much advice. could your friend either log on herself so she can give more details herself?

better yet, she can call one of the 5 breastfeeding helplines and have one to one reassurance from a breastfeeding counsellor.

these are the names and numbers:
National Breastfeeding Helpline 0844 20 909 20
Association of Breastfeeding Mothers helpline 08444 122 949
Breastfeeding Network Supporterline: 0844 412 4664
La Leche League Telephone Helpline: 0845 120 2918
National Childbirth Trust Breastfeeding line: 0870 444 8708

they are all available on sundays.

[popsycal]

Unless they can analyse the milk content by telepathy, they are talking rubbish.

How sad that she has stopped based on this

[ScienceTeacher]

I don't think it is very easy to see hindmilk if the mum is being tested by the midwife.

Producing hindmilk means that the milk has to let down. It takes the right mood for this to happen - and is unlikely if everyone is watching!

Has your friend tried stripping both of them down and snuggling together with skin to skin contact, perhaps even in the bath together? This is one of the best ways of initiating letdown for those who are having trouble.

[ChairmumMiaow]

If you've ever expressed breast milk you'll be able to see exactly what fore and hind milk are - the foremilk settles on the bottom while the creamy hindmilk sits on the top.
Its the opposite in your boobs - if the milk sits in your boobs for a while between feeds, the cream settles near where your milk is produced while the more liquid bit settles towards the front - once that is drained off, you get the creamier bit. If you feed really frequently, it never seperates out.

So as far as I know, its complete rubbish. What you get from expressing is not necessarily the same as what your baby can get out, as they're much better at it than a pump.

I would say she should, instead, do the following (without knowing what the baby is doing):

• see a breast feeding counsellor ASAP - they'll be able to check latch and talk about ways of getting more milk in.
  
• feed more often - sometimes new babies are sleepy and won't ask for milk as often as they could take it cos they're too busy sleeping, so offer more often
  
• do some/more skin to skin feeding as this encourages them to feed.
  
  I'm sure people will be along with better / more detailed advice but please tell her to ignore the midwife and get a second/third opinion because it really sounds like the MW is talking bollocks!
  
  Good luck!

[BumperliciousNeedsToSleep]

How ridiculous. It the baby is FTT she needs to get some proper bfing help. What a load of fucking rubbish! Grrr makes me so angry at the incompetence of some people.

Is there a bfing group in her area? She needs to go asap or call one of the bfing help lines. Does she appear to have any other problems with the bfing? Pain or baby feeding for hours may be an indicator of poor latch. Is she feeding on demand?

[TheProvincialLady]

What a load of total CRAP You can't tell the fat content of milk by looking at it. I expressed exclusively for 18 months and I got used to seeing milk in a bottle, believe me, but I couldn't have told you which milk was fattier than another batch.

It could be that when your friend expressed her breast was very full, which meant that the milk she expressed off was proportionally waterier as that is what tends to come off first. But it is more likely that the MW are just ignorant and using this rubbish way of checking the milk to enforce their own view, which is that she should use formula.

If your friend rings one of the helplines listed on hunker's blog (above) then she will get advice from someone who actually knows about BF, so she can make an informed decision about the best way forward.

[ScienceTeacher]

I would imagine that they are making their assessment based on whether the milk has to be squeezed out or whether it squirts out of its own accord

[helpafriend]

baby is 2 weeks old. it is too late for BFCs - she has already switched to bottle feeding. i was just wondering whether this was correct cos when she told me it didn't sound like it was the right advice. baby was born at 36 weeks. they stayed in hospital for 4 days and were allowed home. on day 7 baby was readmitted. she tried to continue with breastfeeding for another week but baby was still losing weight so then decided to listen to mws and made the switch to formula.

[KristinaM]

I dont understand - if the baby was admitted on day 7 and she continued feeding for another week, then she Bf til day 14 and baby is only 2 weeks old. So its not too late for BFC

[MarsLady]

It's not too late for a bfc!

[kiskideesameanoldmother]

no it is not too late to re-establish breastfeeding. if she is determined, and with patience and the right one to one assistance, she can still do it.

do you mean that the baby is term + 2 wks old?

it is up to her. bf counsellors from the helplines listed are empathetic and very knowledgable and will be there for her for the long haul. even if she changes her mind half way through, they will understand.

[TheProvincialLady]

Definitely not too late! If she wants to breast feed, maybe even mixed feeding, then she can get some good advice on how to do it.

[helpafriend]

sorry baby is 3 weeks not 2. pressed the wrong key. doh!!

[kiskideesameanoldmother]

as said, helpafriend. it is better to contact a bf counsellor directly now than to pose questions here on MN.

[TheProvincialLady]

Even a baby who has NEVER breast fed can still learn at 8 weeks, so if you friend wanted to BF again she could almost certainly persuade the baby to feed. She would need to express a few times a day as well at first to get her supply back, and she would need to have help to make sure that the baby is feeding well (which is probably all she needed in the first place, grr). But if course all of this is only if she wants to. I just want to show that it is possible.

[hunkermunker]

Midwife barking.

Ring BFC.