Any BFC about? -- Returning to work and demand feeding

[glimmer]

I just have returned to work FT and want to continue to fully BF. So far I demand fed DS (19 weeks, growth along 45 percentile) and he often nursed every three hours during the day and every four every night (although he wants to nurse every 2h at night at the moment, but I very much believe this is a resettling issue not hunger). He always only fed from one side, so 6h between feeds from each boob, if this makes sense. I am not at all an organised person, so this scheduleing is a big challenge for me.

Because of the worl demand feeding is not possible any more and I would like to move to the following routine:

BF when I leave the house (both sides (=boob)) : 8:30
BF (first side) when I come home for lunch :12:15
BF (second side) before I leave again: 1:15
afternoon: EBM (4-5oz) on demand
evening: bedtime feed between 6 and 7pm
dream feed: between 11pm and 12pm
resettle without nursing until 5am
feed as often as he wishes between 5 and 8:30

My questions are: What do you think about this routine? Will he get enough milk? Do you think it would be better to keep the demand feeding and use more EBM rather than nursing him on a schedule? Do you think it's a good idea not to offer milk between midnight and 5 am at his age (19 weeks) or shall I nurse him whenever he comes (every 2h) currently.

My last question is rather technical. I am confused about the quality of milk. I heard that one should "empty" one breast before using the other, because the hint milk has more fat as opposed to the fore milk. However I also hear that the more frequently one nurses, the more fat is in the milk. So, when I feed on one side only at a frequency of 6h (so there are feeds every 3h) as opposed to feeding from both sides every 3h, which way does my son get more fat? Does it make sense to "tank" him up at 8:30 and noon, so that he makes it to the next feeding or do I do more damage than good?

Any advice and suggestions would be appreciated.

[glimmer]

bump

[Caz10]

Bumping for you glimmer as I am back to work soon too and would like to know!!

I'd imagine demand feeding through the night will probably be the way to go, but I am NOT an expert. And zzzzzz how tiring...

[cmotdibbler]

Am not a bfc, but work ft and bf. I demand fed all the time - at nursery it was EBM on demand - at your LOs age around 3x4oz a day, which meant I pumped 3x a day at work. No dream feed, and bf on demand when I was around.
It just depends on your LO whether they will like going to scheduled feeds and whether you cope with having to feed at set times. TBH it would drive me nuts to be thinking that I had to get a feed in at a certain time, and that it had to be done within a timeslot to get me back to work.

Demand feeding meant that I expressed at work till 14 months, and am still bfing at 22 months.

Tiktok will explain the hind milk thing much better than I could.

[glimmer]

Thanks for your messages Caz and Cmotdibbler.
The route you choose is very interesting to me Cmotdibbler. One problem is that I hate expressing and it takes a very long time to get anything, so that I want to keep it to a minimum. The nursing on a schedule is not a problem for me, but I do wonder if LO is hungry when I am not around. DH is watching him and sais he definitely does not cry of hunger, but then I was pretty familiar with his hunger clues and never let it get that far.

I think I will try for a while and weight him every week to see if he continues to gain weight; I have heard that babies are willing to adjust to change, e.g. feed more during the night. If he is hungry he can feed as often at the night as he wants. I realise that my schedule reads very restrictive, especially since I currently also try to resettle him between midnight and 5am, but in truth I am a total softy, and have to work on discipline.

I also should add that the freezer is full of EBM for hunger spells/groth spurts and unforeseen delays.

[cmotdibbler]

I found that expressing instead of a feed was pretty easy as you've got all that milk, wheras normally you are expressing in addition to feeding iyswim. Hand expressing can be really fast esp if you aren't used to pumping - but I had a double pump and rather enjoyed a quiet break with pump and book.

I just wonder whether you are sort of going to be fighting against yourself with scheduled feeding in the day, which he might reduce, and trying to feed less at night (where the tendency might be to reverse cycle)

As no one else has been along about the hindmilk thing: think about pouring a glass of orange juice with bits in - the longer you leave it, the more the bits settle to the bottom, right ? If you drink a glass thats stood for 4 hours, you first get the more watery bit, and then increasingly the bits. If it had stood for 2 hours, you will drink less of the watery bit before getting the bits. But both glasses had the same amount of juice and bits. Its sort of like that with breastmilk - theres no actual hindmilk, just the watery part of the milk getting moved faster than the fattier bit.

Does that make sense ?

[glimmer]

Oh very interesting about the hintmilk Cmotdibbler. Seems my title was not very inviting for people to join :-)
I like and understand your orange juice analogy. So why do they recommend feeding from one side only? Is it that 3h are already enough for the water and fat to separate and thus if you feed only a little bit on each side the baby get's only "water"? I ask because I wonder if I should feed from "both" sides rather than just one. I normally just stop when LO seems satisfied / start to pull away and smile at me , but I am never sure if this could also mean the breast is "empty".

Oh and whenever we give him EBM he drinks at least 5oz (any time of the day) so I assume that he wouldn't be happy with 3x4oz. It takes me about 30min to get 2oz even if I replace the feed, the milk just does not come out and my breast feels so full that it is uncomfortable and it becomes "engorged".

Hmm your point about fighting against myself is a very good one. I had started the resettling thing before returning to work, since he seems to nurse himself to sleep every 2h (fin with me), but got reflux and would wake up coughing and screaming. Now I carry him around for 15min after each feed, which fixes the reflux problem, but then he is up and can't get back to sleep.... Long story for another thread, but BF to resettle and reflux don't go together...

Thanks for your reply!

[cmotdibbler]

I think most people recommend offering both breasts per feed, allowing the baby to feed on the first side until they start pulling off/fussing and then offer the other - they may or may not want much of that one. It could be that the one breast per feed thing was a reaction to the old thing of giving set times on each breast, which conceivably could leave some babies just getting foremilk I suppose.

My Ds went through stages of wanting one or both breasts. Of course now he puts the finished one away, pats it, and asks for 'more side nunnies', so its fairly clear that he likes both.

[glimmer]

Cmotdibbler - very cute your son!!! I hope I will be able to report the same when mine is 22 months!

[weasle]

hello, i have no advice at all but just wanted to know any answers too as planning to go back to work when ds 6 months and very keen to keep bf.

i find expressing miserable as i can get very little out. no idea if i'll be able to get much when at work.

really like your oj analogy cmotdibbler, thank for that!

[Caz10]

i agree re the both sides thing, def offer the 2nd one, apparently they may not always take it (my greedy guts does, AND goes back for a 3rd sometimes!)

Loved the OJ analogy!

I hate expressing too, but I suppose have always been doing it as well as feeding, maybe it will be easier when it is instead of.

How are things going for you glimmer?

[cmotdibbler]

Thanks Glimmer - he is very cute, but very determined to hang onto his morning feed. We've been down to just that for a couple of months now, and DH says that he's supposed to be weaned around 2. But DS is very determined, so we'll see. I'm not that bothered about it continuing, but it would be nice to stop expressing when I'm away.

[tiktok]

glimmer, no one should be 'recommending' one side only....those that do are showing their ignorance about how bf works! Some babies need 2 , 3 or even more sides at a 'session'; some will be happy with one. There is nothing to be said for deliberately sticking at one only (unless you are delib, reducing the supply for some reason).

The OJ analogy is helpful, I agree, but in fact it doesn't tell the full story. The amount of fat in the milk differs according to the amount of milk in the breast - more milk = less fat; less milk = more fat. Honestly, no one needs to worry about this, as the baby sorts it out!

Your routine is probably best worked out between you when you return, glimmer...it sounds ok on paper as I guess you will be expressing at work in the afternoon and stimulating your supply that way?

[Caz10]

hijack - sorry - tiktok if you DON'T express at work would your supply be affected?

[tiktok]

Caz, it could be....long gaps between breastfeeding/expressing send a 'stop making milk' message to the body.

It may not matter with an older baby on solids, who actually may not need as much milk, or who can 'order up' more milk at the drop of a hat on the days he is with mum.

But a baby of 19 weeks is not on solids, and needs as much breastmilk as ever.

Working FT, like the OP, means 5 days a week with that long gap in the afternoon, unless she expresses.

Individual experience does vary, though, and in any case, a drop in supply does not have to mean anything drastic - expressing/feeding more often will just 'repair' it

[Caz10]

Thanks tiktok. I'll be back for 2 5-day weeks when dd is 6mths, then back again FT 6 weeks later (after school summer hols) -is that a whole different ball game because of her being an older baby?
i probably won't be able to express/feed 8-5

[cmotdibbler]

I know Tiktok, but its the only way I can think of that is an easy way to explain the sort of way it works - and that it doesn't really matter.