I need some help with breastfeeding my 4mo please (not physically of course!)

[sorkycake]

Though if you have a burning desire to come and do the night feeds then CAT me
Ok, he's still feeding 2 hourly, sometimes every hour, day and night.
I'm shattered .
I need some advice on how to get some sleep or how to get him to go a bit longer between feeds. I have 2 other children who are finding it hard that 'mummy is always feeding the baby'. My other two were bf for the first 4mo but slept through from 8weeks, not so lucky this time.
I have had varying advice from family mostly suggesting I try gina ford's schedules or switch to formula.
Here's his day/nights:
2 hourly feeds, very little day sleep, 2 naps of 30 minutes. Asleep at 7pm and only stirs to feed through the night. Problem is once I wake I'm finding it hard to return to sleep.
Sometimes he'll go 3.5 hours (7-10.30pm) but it's usually another feed at 9 more often than not.
We have a problem approaching in that when I return to work in 2 months time, for 1/7, DH will take over for the day, but baby isn't in a set routine yet (he'll never cope without written guide as to what to do) and I don't seem to be able to express any breast milk to store for that day yet.
I'm not willing to give up exclusive feeding at the moment and I'm ashamed to admit, in desperation from lack of sleep, I did get a carton of formula, luckily he thought I was poisoning him and bawled until he got to suckle again.
We co-sleep and he feeds very 1.5-2hours during the night. I try to get him to take a dummy to see if it's just the suck he needs not the milk, which works sometimes, but not long enough for a good rest.
Gawd have I really moaned that much? Sorry, and well done if you've read this
Any suggestions?

[sorkycake]

He's a very happy little boy though!

[sorkycake]

anyone?

[tinymum]

My eldest was like this. Sorry no advice to change things, except to say it will get better and keep your chin up. I don't think formula will help the situation. If your supply needs to increase then only suckling will do it. Does he feed for long or is he a snacker?

[tinymum]

You could try looking on www.askdrsears.com, they have great tips for dealing with a 'fussy baby'.

[oliveoil]

I had this with dd1 and dd2, always feeding and I agree it is hard with others to look after

mine DID settle down around the 4 month mark however

you may want to start on the Gina routine, I did a sort of version of hers at around the 4 month mark (I won't post what I think of doing it earlier )

I worked on the theory that when they have been awake 2 hours, they are tired, so would put them in the moses/cot

fed at 7ish, 10ish, 1ish, 4ish, then 7ish, bed

lots of food in the day, less at night

BUT iirc dd2 fed until around a year old, dd1 was about 5 months or so

[sorkycake]

human snack bar that sounds about right
thanks will check out the site

[oliveoil]

dd1 had naps at around 9 and 4 for 30 mins
2 hours at lunch

dd2 however didn't have ANY routine as she had to fit in with dd1

how old are your other children, do you have school run etc

[sorkycake]

Oliveoil did it get easier once you started weaning? I'm hoping to BLW.

[oliveoil]

well both mine were weaned at 4 months so ignore everything I say (according to The Law Of Mumsnet)

I don't think weaning makes any difference though, so no

imo, more breastfeeds in the day

dummy worth a try, however, dd1 would then wake up whenever it fell out. dd2 refused one.

[sorkycake]

We home ed, which is great in the respect that we have no school run, but making me feel guilty that I'm not spending as much time with them as I'd like to
They're 5 & 3, so at that delightful stage where they look like they're absorbed in something, but quickly trash the house whilst you're trying to get the baby to sleep.

[sorkycake]

Gawd I honestly can't feed him anymore during the day than I already do!
Hmmf! Gonna have to grin and bear it aren't I?

[oliveoil]

does he have long feeds? I found that they would go longer between feeds if they fed on both sides

[Slim]

DS was just like this but started going longer between feeds at about 5 months. I went back to work at 6 months and it was fine. He'll be doing something completely different by that point, so I shouldn't stress too much about the returning to work thing.

[sorkycake]

He feeds well from one side, he's coming off when he wants to. Sometimes he'll take the other side when offered, sometimes not. He does go slightly longer if he takes both sides I've noticed. Maybe I should do the change the nappy thing to wake him slightly then offer the other side, see if that helps.
My mum and the rest of the world insist I'm spoiling him! Dh is gonna find him reeeallly hard work when I go back to work.

[sorkycake]

Thanks for that slim, Xpost

[oliveoil]

pah, what else can you do with a 4 month old but spoil?

I used to stroke their feet to wake them up ((??!!)

have you tried him in a cot? he may stir more lying next to you

[mears]

At 4 months you may be able to distract him a littel between feeds like lying on a mat with the nappy off, playing with toys and trying not to feed him immediately just to eek it out.

After saying that though, the one good piece of advice I got early on in my breastffeding carrer was not to clock watch but just to go with the flow i.e. don't look at the clock and think @it's only 2 hours since I fed you'. I probably fed 2 hourly at this age too.

Don't worry about going back to work in 2 months time - his pattern will have changed by then. He will cope.

Can't advise about the co-sleeping- it that encouraging him to graze during the night? I started a thread about that recently and the mums that responded thought it did encourage feeding during the night but that was natural and normal. My babies slept in a cot and came into bed for feeds but I returned them to the cot if they fell asleep and I was awake to notice.

[mears]

Would definitely offer both breasts at all feeds

[Ladymuck]

I hate to say it but in many respects this sounds spot on for a wellfed 4mo (and you now know how lucky your were first time round). As I see it there are 3 issues:-

a) lack of sleep
b) your difficulty in expressing
c) the need to have some sort of routine for your dh to follow.

You need to have a plan to tackle all 3 issues really, and whilst swapping to formula might be the quick win, it isn't really what you want to do.

In terms of a) I assume that it is your lack of sleep that is the issue rather than his? How is he in himself during the day? If it is your lack of sleep then working on the b) may give you a way out (dh can give a final "dream feed" which may give you some time to sleep). For c) I think that Gina Ford may be a bit of a culture shock and just leave both your ds and dh frustrated. Tracey Hogg's the Baby Whisperer gives an easy structure to the day, and would be simper to use (Personally I found Gina Ford's routine unworkable with older children around).

That leaves expressing. What have you tried to date, both in terms of timing, techniques or pumps?

I know that it is little consolation but I think that this 4-6 months stage can be one of the toughest - you've already had 4+ months of broken sleep and the baby is now more active and awake during the day... You're entitled to moan a little. And to be at all the women around you with their 8week sleeping through babies!

[sorkycake]

I'm lazy is why we're co-sleeping
We have the luxury of a big bed and neither me nor Dh wanted to do as we did with the other 2 and get up, walk into another room and get baby only to return bleary 45 minutes later. He was born at home and it just seemed the most natural thing to do to all sleep together the first night. We've just continued. We have a crib next to the bed which we put him in after the evening feed, he wakes at 10-11pm and comes into our bed then for a feed and for the rest of the night.
Maybe I should try returning him to the crib? He sleeps better if he's in with me I think. I'll try anything tho'.

[Ladymuck]

Just read Oliveoil's message re Gina - sorry I was a bit patronising in dismissing her altogether, especially as you've already got 2 and will have more sense than to panic about not having had your wholemeal toast at 8:05. I found Gina's book to be a useful guide as to when they might drop naps or feeds (but my ds's seemed to be around 4 weeks behind the model Contented Baby)

[Ladymuck]

"I'll try anything tho'."

I think I was considering Ebay at one point...

[daizydoo]

I have been in a similar situation to you recently. I was feeding every 1-2hrs to begin with and every 2-3 hrs during the night. My DS went into his own cot, in his own room at 9 weeks (due to the fact that he was too long for the crib & the cot didnt fit in our room!!) and his night time sleeping improved dramatically and I think it kind of had a knock on effect to the day feeds too.

I hope the situation gets better - I know how you feel!

[sorkycake]

Ok Ladymuck has organised my addled thoughts much better, thanks.
Yes it's my sleep that's the issue. Apart from a whinge to feed in the night he does sleep through IYSWIM. He doesn't wake crying because he's in bed next to me, he rouses me from sleep and he latches on before he has a chance to wake up.
He's a very happy baby obviously! He has 2x30 minute naps during the day. He's very happy after these, kicks on a mat without nappy, sings away to himself happily, but likes to be carried if he can and talked to for as long as you will.
Generally a very easy but demanding baby if that makes sense?
I have a hand pump which I'm happy with, but if I expressed after each feed I'd feel as if I were doing nothing else except feed/pump. Is it like this for a few days until I have enough milk in the freezer. He will take EBM from a bottle so that will sort the feeds when I'm not here. Will try the baby whisperer book I think.

[sorkycake]

We have the nursery all ready for him so maybe we should try putting him in there after the early evening feed and see if he goes any longer.
LOL at the Ebay thing, I thought about that with all of them!
Both my other kids slept in their own cots in another room until 6am when they were brought in with us, but that was their choice they just slept better in their own beds. I'll try that tonight.
I actually followed GF for my first and it worked a treat, but the second child was having none of it and we just used our instints really, even more so this time. Thing is my instincts are telling me just go lie down!!!