Newborn latches on but lets go

[welliesandpyjamas]

DD is my third and I BF DS1 and DS2 for a year and two years respectively, so although I don't claim to be an expert, I think I'm pretty experienced, know most of the problems/solutions/etc that come along with bfeeding Got all the t-shirts, you could say! But this little madam has presented me with a new one and I'd really appreciate any thoughts anyone has as to WHY this is happening and how I can solve it

She's 6 days old, breastfed fine from the start, latched on really well after the first couple of feeds. Milk came in with the full on breast engorgement at day 4 (ish) and since then she's had anger issues trouble with feeding. There is less nipple (and I have short ones anyway) but even if I express some off for her to give her something extra to grip on to with her gums, she latches on, sucks two or three times and lets go. So she hasn't forgotten her latch, it just seems that she won't keep up the action for some reason. She is getting angry/frustrated and hungry. She swallows milk that ends up in her mouth during all the fussing so she is getting something - but I think she is stopping and going to sleep out of tiredness from reprated attempts at feeding, rather than because she is full. Twice since all this started I've expressed and given in, giving her the milk in a bottle to settle her. She gets very distressed and the whole process goes on for ages.

I think I've tried everything but please tell me if I've missed something obvious?? I've tried all different positions, squeezing the nipple/end of breast in to an easier shape, biological nurturing approach, skin to skin, um, you name it, I think I've tried it, I just can't remember at this time of night!

No sign of tongue tie or thrush or anything. Nothing new (taste/smell) on me.

Why is she doing this?? How do we get past this. I really don't want to carry on having to bottle feed her my milk when I now she can feed beautifully. I just can't understand why she lets go every time and stops herself feeding.

[DoubleYew]

Congrats .

Has she had good feeds then but only before you got engorged? I remember ds not being able to latch on to the bowling balls.

Do you think nipple confusion is a problem if she has had a bottle? I would cut out the bottle, feed her some expressed milk from a cup or spoon (let her lap it like a tiny cute animal) or drip some milk from your finger or very gentley from a syringe. Give her a bit to take the edge of her hunger (remember tummy the size of a walnut at this age) and then try offering the nipple (perhaps drip some milk on the nipple).

Good luck fricking todlder just woke.

[welliesandpyjamas]

Should add that she cries through most of this process, getting more and more distressed.

[Hyperballad]

My baby has done this on and off, he is 12 weeks now. He too gets angry and frustrated and the constant on off on off is quite hard to deal with isn't it!

I think it's related to tummy ache for him as quite often after a feed like this he fills his nappy.

The only thing I've found that helps is to keep the nipple held in my fingers after he has latched on and not to let go,

When he drinks fine I can let go of the nipple and he continues to drink but when doing the on off thing I don't let go and hold it in place for the whole feed if I have to and it does help minimise it.

This is my first and your on your 3rd so I'm sure you could teach me a lot!

[MigGril]

have a look at Dr jack Newman website for good positioning and attachment to see if you are missing anything. expressing to down the breast is a very good idea.

Expressing and feeding by cup is a good idea. If she gets upset take her away and charm her down again first. you don't want her to associate being at the beat as being upset or it could lean to breast refusal.

If that doesn't help then you need some really life help. how's your midwife can you give them a ring for support or ring one of the breastfeeding helplines. Remember every baby is different doesn't matter if it's your first or Firth you can still run into problems and need a bit of extra help.

good luck.

[welliesandpyjamas]

Thanks everyone

doubleyew sorry I missed your post last night, you were fast and I was sleepy! I don't think it's nipple confusion as this started way before the two bottles she's had. Good idea to offer it in a cup though to see if it helps break her silly cycle and then we can try again on the boob.

hyberballad I also wondered about the stomach/digestion pain. There don't seem to be any obvious signs like the leg pulling and those special shrieks. And she does it the same whether before or after a nappy [eye roll]. Might be worth a bit of belly rubbing for luck even if it's just to relax her a bit. She gets seriously annoyed...wish I knew why! I've been holding the nipple for her (also trying to let her find it herself etc, tried everything!!!) and yes, she latches on the same, she just lets go within 2/3 sucks.

MicGril will go have a look at that website now over a cup of tea before madam wakes up. Thank you. I like the term 'charm her down' . I've got a set of community midwives to call on and as it's just pot luck the one I get when I call. They're all lovely but the last one that came, just before this all started, was one of those who listen but don't hear iykwim and got distracted by the fact I wasn't swapping breasts half way through a feed (something I hadn't felt was necessary so far due to her being so small and not feeding as long as an older baby, and because I didn't want her to just get the foremilk of both sides!) so I got mildly told off for that, and told she needed more milk because she'd only gone from 7lb14oz to 7lb8oz in five days... It upset me a bit and put me off calling her about this yesterday. I'm tempted to try calling one of the helplines though. I really feel like I must be missing some obvious clue!

So this morning I woke early and have expressed off both my boulders boobs to make them as user friendly as possible for her. I just hope that helps her feel she can stay on once she's latched on. Fingers crossed.

Thank you for all the thoughts during the night! Will also keep this bumped in case someone else can tell my why oh why she is doing this!

[byhec]

My DS was very like this and he was diagnosed with a 25% posterior tongue tie. Once this was snipped he fed a lot better. I had a mw, gp and hv tell me he wasn't tongue tied, took a breastfeeding supporter and a private lactation consultant to finally diagnose it.

[welliesandpyjamas]

Interesting, byhec...so did your ds latch on ok? Did he sometimes stay latched on or always push it out again? Was there anything visible you could see that suggested the tongue tie or was it very subtle? Sorry about bombarding you with questions!

[welliesandpyjamas]

not wanting to jinx things but so far we've had three normal feeds today I used a cup when the first feed started going the usual silly way and although a bit surprised, she drank it happily. After that she latched on and stayed on. Same goes for the two subsequent feeds. And I think she seems far more relaxed, I don't know if it's the cause or the effect but it's lovely

[whenwill]

who told you it wasn't tongue tie? dd had posterior tie too and was missed and missed until 7 months. Sam frustration, off and on every feed. wouldn't suck except to swallow first let down milk.

[whenwill]

with me dd would latch but not wide and would't put head back (with nose away from breast and chin touching underneath) but tried to tilt fowards if anything (when older). Would latch better when I was fuller with milk.

Wen my milk established and wasn't gushing out she had sunken fontanelle a few times cos couldn't stimulate my supply and each feed was getting less each day but wouldn't stay on and frustrated, sad, tired (both of us).

When i slightly depressed floor of mouth under tongue there would be a dip in the tongue like it was been pulled down (agaion older than yours). Occurred to me this might be somewhat normal but it was enough to make me push to get it rerechecked. Also tongue would only come out to touch bottom lip but not over it.

Not everyone experiences tt in the same way though. It is so variable but general result is feeding issues.

I expect you tired breast compressions?

[byhec]

He would latch on ok if everything was just right but it was a bit of a battle and he'd get really angry if he couldn't quite get it right :-( the tongue tie was hard to spot, took a tongue tie expert to spot it, I think posterior ones are hard to see with an untrained eye.
It was a breastfeeding supporter who encouraged me to get a tongue tie expert to check and he reasoning was his behaviour when feeding. Once it was divided the difference was amazing!

[Hyperballad]

Just read that you've had some success Wellies! Yey! Well done. My babe decided he didn't mind the boob that he usually doesn't like and fed well today too! Hurray! X

[Iggly]

If she's ok now, maybe it was just the milk was too much for her?

But if it gets bad again, get tongue tie ruled out. With my second I thought I was doing it all fine, couldn't work out the problem and took weeks to sort it out.