feeling sad - no longer able to ebf almost 5m DD

[kipperroo]

Went back to work full time 2 weeks ago. Long commute - trying to move closer to work but sale still going through. Have ebf DD since birth. Have been expressing at work 3 times a day plus one express at 5am feed (as DD only takes one side). But DD drinking more than I can express and have used up last of the freezer stash.
Bit depressed as had hoped to ebf til 6m but nursery had to ask for more milk. DD getting thru x2 6oz bottles plus 2oz top up from 8am-1pm, then further 2x 4-6oz bottles at home with DH in afternoon. I am knackered and struggling to express enough to meet her needs. Know that mixed feeding Bm and formula is probably best option but feel like I've failed somehow.
Sorry for long post but feel so sad. I know I've done my best under the circumstances but can't help feeling guilty somehow.

[Ineedsomesleep]

Please don't feel guilty, you have a happy healthy little girl who sounds like she is thriving. You have done nothing wrong.

[kipperroo]

Thanks ineedsomesleep :-) I know that getting her to almost five months ebf is an achievement. Didn't think going back to work and expressing would be so hard.

[Ineedsomesleep]

You don't have to stop completely either if you don't want to. Feeding her when you get home is a lovely way to say hello and forget about your working day

[DoodlingPomBear]

Kipperoo, I think some people just can't express enough. I can't get enough out iyswim! I now ds is getting enough from me but when I express I can only get 2oz! So irritating, and I really feel for you. Unfortunately I don't have any helpful advice, apart from perhaps changing your breastpump? photo of dd whilst pumping? Sorry!

[Ineedsomesleep]

Kipperoo, please have a look at Reasons to Be Proud. And you should be proud

[TheProvincialLady]

Do you have a double electric pump? That could help you to express more, compared with a single pump (even if you do both breasts). I had an Ameda Lactaline and it was brilliant.

HOWEVER you have done a superb job so far and mixed feeding from now on would do nothing to diminish that. Sometimes, if you have given something your best go - which it sounds like you have - you have to accept that even with the best will in the world, things don't always go how you would like them to.

[MumNWLondon]

I really struggled with EBF from 5 months each time, even when feeding directly from me, each time with each child was back to newborn feeding pattern, eg 12 feeds in 24 hour period.

DD I weaned at 5 months which cut down the amount of breastmilk she needed, DS I switched to formula as he really did want to feed hourly day and night.

I also found expressing much less productive that feeding directly and I would have found this impossible - only way I could EBF past 5 months was by being able to feed 2 hourly day and night.

A baby of 5 months would be drinking roughly 35oz, even with say 3 good feeds at home of 6oz each, thats still a huge amount to have to pump off during the day.

You've done really well, and you might find that if you get through to weaning then the amounts you are expressing might be enough again.

[ClimberChick]

it sounds like she's taking more than she needs, which is common with BF babies on bottles, they're used to comfort sucking (which on a bottle means they then have to swallow milk).

Also BF babies do not increase how much they drink with age (from 6 weeks). Average is 25oz per dar (19-30oz range) as fat content increases with time.

With DD we limited how much she had during the day. She was offered 1oz per hr since last feed, plus 1 for luck. If she still cried afterwards she was offered more. It didn't matter how much was in the bottle she always drank it all. I would express between 10-15oz a day and this was enough. If you wanted to carry it it might take a little while for your DD to get used to drinking less in the day, but if you want to carry it, it's a way forward. Worse case is she'll feed more at night.

An additional problem with her taking so much (and she is taking A LOT) in the day is that she then won't need to feed from you.

[kipperroo]

Thanks for the support.
climberchick - I thought nursery were giving her too much milk. they said she is still hungry after 5oz (which is what we were giving her in each bottle). When DH asked how they knew this they said because she was sucking her hand. we know that this is comfort not hunger and tried to tell nursery staff this but they make me feel like we're starving her if we don't send in top up milk as well.
As it turns out I have not been able to express at all this wknd due to V&D tummy bug so DD will have to have formula for some feeds.
Planning to give nursery one 6oz formula feed and one 5oz bottle ebm and no top-up. Does thus sound ok for 8am to 1pm? She will have been bf at 5am.

[MumNWLondon]

What climberchick said:

If you really want to EBF and are happy to fed more in the night, express as much as you can and don't worry if she finishes at nursery as long as she's not starving. BF babies stop when the milk becomes too slow for it to be worth it, FF babies often keep on going until they are totally stuffed. My DS2 has got his newborn vomitting back since going onto formula. He feeds until totally stuffed. No need for her to be totally stuffed at nursery, you want her to be really hungry so she feeds well from you in the evening. If she is hungry she'll demand more feeds in the night.

When you say they asked for more, do you mean that she drained it, or do you mean she finished it and was still crying as hungry?

[MumNWLondon]

I would have guess at that age if she was fed at 5am, would be hungry say at 8am and 12pm, 2 x 5oz should be plenty.

Sucking hands does not mean hungry.

[ClimberChick]

5oz EBM is enough for 8-1 (though admittedly only just) and you'll feed her straight away so...

rememeber you're her parent and you're paying the nursey to look after your DD according to your wishes. They're not doing a favour, it a service you have paid (presumable a lot) for.

They're probable so used to formula amounts that they don't appreciate the often quite big difference.

[MoonFaceMamaaaaargh]

would you consider donated milk? You could try milkshare.org (sorry, on my phone so can't link)

Either way you've done a great job.

[kipperroo]

MumNWLondon - we don't know if she is crying for more milk (i doubt it as she doesn't at home). More likely, as Climberchick says, she is drinking it because it is given. She does not drink as much in afternoon. Also she feeds well at 5am from breast but in eve when I get home she fusses a lot and keeps coming off to look around. It's a real struggle to get a good feed into her. Now she's started waking at 3am as well as 5am. The lack of sleep and commute is getting me down.

[MumNWLondon]

If you want her to take a good feed when you get home will have to look at what she's drinking in the 3 hours before you get back. Also need to made sure she is not too overtired to fed well. The amounts at nursery shouldn't really impact that as its in the morning.

I found getting up in night very difficult, and for me couldn't function at work on that basis. I went back at 5.5 months and DS2 was weaned onto solids and formula (during day) from when I got back, which meant I could sleep all night.

Giving her less in the day is likely to lead to more night time waking - although even though DS2 was feeding all day at that age he was waking up in the night several times as well. It was certainly hunger, night waking stopped as soon as solids and formula introduced.

The problem IME with expressing at this age is that they need a lot of milk and hard even to keep up with it when you are around all day (this is what I found) hence even more difficult when baby's time at the breast is restricted.

[DoodlingPomBear]

My ds likes to suck his hands, he is still trying to find his thumb or his finger - I sometimes after a feed resort to a dummy, could this be an option? I know not everyone likes dummy's though so wouldn't blame you if you didn't want to.

[ClimberChick]

here a kellymom link for what I was saying and more info. Maybe you can print it off and give it to your nursery.

[kipperroo]

Ok.so today we gave 1 bottle formula (5oz) and 1 bottle ebm (5oz) to nursery and no top up and DD was fine. She's had 1x5oz ebm and 1x5oz formula bottle at home with DH. I fed her at 5am and will feed again this eve when I get home. Think I AK happy with that. Certainly takes the pressure off expressing to know I only.need to "make" 2 5oz bottles.

[ClimberChick]

how's this week been OP?

[kipperroo]

Better thanks climberchick. DD has taken Formula with no problems (with the exception of a change in poo consistency - not that that's bothered her) and as a result is having one bottle formula at 8am then a 5oz bottle of ebm at 11, 2 and 5, then feeding much more from me at 7/8pm. Feel so relieved as less pressure to "produce" and she seems happy so no guilt there. Think this is a good compromise. Will review again at 6m when we intend to start weaning.

[ClimberChick]

good stuff, I agree the pressure to produce enough milk can be stressful.