my mum is dying - when/what do I tell dd1 (8) ?

[geekgirl]

My mum has ovarian cancer - we thought it had been treated successfully (for now, anyway) but unfortunately I came back almost straight after she finished her first course of chemo in May.

The prognosis now is very poor. She is having more chemo and if the cancer responds to that (there's only a 20% chance of that happening) she's maybe got another 9 months. If it doesn't respond it'll obviously be less.

My parents are brilliant grandparents and much loved by my children. Dd1 knows that her grandma has a very bad disease but doesn't know the extent of it really. I think it all confuses her a bit. Unfortunately I am not coping so well with it all and can frequently be found sobbing into my pillow - I try to pull myself together when the children are around, but it's too hard.

I don't know what to tell then children. Dd1 gets really upset and starts crying too when she sees me crying. Ds (3) tells me that I mustn't cry and hands me his cuddly to make me feel happy again.

Should I tell dd1? I don't want to burden her and I don't want her to blurt out something inappropriate when she next sees my mum. OTOH, should she know for some reason or other?

[mummydoit]

Your DD1 is still very young. I'd be inclined to make it clear that grandma is very poorly but not to raise the possibility that she might die. Perhaps later on when the end is near you might mention something but I'd be worried that her relationship with her grandma might be adversely affected if you told her now. She might become uncomfortable around grandma and not know what to say which would be upsetting for both of them. Of course, if she has previous experience of death and might think of the possibility herself, then I would discuss it with you. Sorry, this advice is probably not much use as my children are much younger so I'm not sure what an 8 year old understands but I just wanted to reply and give you my sympathy. It is a horrible thing you and your family are going through.

[NoodleStroodle]

ggirl - my heart goes out to you.

Personally I would tell my 8 DD - like you say she knows something is seriously wrong already. It is really hard but you cannot shield her from the inevitable and perhaps make you a stronger family to go through this together. You do not need to go into details but as time goes on there will be more and more to explain away and she will be more and more suspicious and feel shut out. But she is your DD - you know her emotional state etc

I am sure that there must be more useful advice out there - perhaps MacMillan?

DS is obviously responding on a more basic level and I would keep it there - mummy is sad because her mummy is sad.

[Flum]

I think you should tell them both. Make it into a story or something. Children are totally practical about things like this. Most likely they will blurt something out but actually it often diffuses difficult situations.

My dd1 who is 3 is always announcing that 'BIL & SIL and their daughter are sad because their baby died' to everyone, including them and its nice, it shows she remembers, it shows she cares.

This is how children learn to understand life isn't it.

It will be so much easier for you if it is all just out in the open, you can all have a cry together. The kids will enjoy thinking of nice things to do for Granny to help her along. It will be sadder if Granny dies just out of the blue, unexpected.

There can be so many golden moments in the last months of someones life with cancer, it can be a release for everyone.

I say tell them the truth.

[geekgirl]

thank you all - I think what makes this all harder to deal with is that my dad is in complete denial and seems to think that if all think positive thoughts the cancer will just go away .

The children and me going to stay with them for 2 or 3 weeks in the summer holidays and I am worried about dd1 saying something that will cause upset to either my mum or my dad. But then again it does feel unfair to keep her in the dark.

She's a bright but v. innocent little girl, she'll probably make up some weird scenario in her head if she doesn't get an explanation.

[clutteredup]

Poor, poor, you My heart goes out to you.
i would wait till the questions come and then answer them as honestly as you can.
My dad had a heart attack a few months ago andthen closely followed it by a stroke, which was more serious. When it happened I went to see him, on the other side of the country, and left our DC 3 and6 with DH and other grandparents. When my FIL asked what we had 'told' the children i said we had explained the situation as best we could. Both are quite bright and asked questions including, 'is grandpa going to die?' At that point i really didn't know and so I said ,'i don't know, but hopefully he will get better.'
Fortunately for all of us he has got better, although he is in a wheelchair. We took the DC to see him and in fact rather than being disturbed by the whole experience it was easier for them to cope after seeing him. Their imaginations were far worse than the reality. I know it's a much worse position you're in, but it might be an idea to be honest if you can be as otherwise the shock if she does die could be worse. If she isn't asking questions then you should be able to leave it until she does, 'Mummy's sad becasue Granny is very poorly' is probably sufficient until they ask more. We tried to give a basic explaination as to what a stroke was, more obviously to DS, we told DD grandpa had a bit in his head which was poorly.
Prepare the answers to the whole, where do people go whent they die thing - it will come up at some point and you need to decided whta you're going to tell them.
my thoughts are with you.

[WendyWeber]

geekgirl

My brother was 8 when our mother died of cancer (I was 21) - he knew she was ill but had no idea she would die and was totally devastated. I think he would have coped a lot better had he known and been prepared. (What she died of was mesothilioma but we found out afterwards that she also had ovarian cancer.)

I agree that dd1 is old enough to be told, to understand and to share your sorrow but also to have some happy moments with her grandma while she still can.

DS is too young to realise that death is final but can still be told that you are sad because your mummy is very ill.

I hope you will be able to have lots of happy times too before your mum dies.

[Kewcumber]

I would l;eave your Dad in denial for as long as possible, it helps him cope no doubt. If she doesn't respond he will start facing up to it then - in his own time. I agree that telling her granny is very poorly and you are sad about it, is the way to go. If she asked whether they can make her better you can say that you hope so and they are trying?

[Kewcumber]

sorry - should say how much I feel for you - my mum is in remission with bladder cancer and is past her two years that she was expected to live. I know just how you feel. My heart goes out to you.

[chocolateteapot]

So sorry Geekgirl. I think if it were me I would tell her a fair bit in advance so she can prepare for it, but not just yet. In the meantime if she sees you crying I would go down the line of saying that you are sad because seeing Grandma being ill upsets you. I think if she asks if she will die then you need to be honest and say there is a chance this might happen but then try to get her to concentrate on what things she would like to do with your Mum over the summer.

I also think a fair bit comes down to the personality of the child. My DD (same age) has specifically asked not to be told when my MIL goes (they are withdrawing her fluids etc today ) and I am going to do as she has asked for now as she doesn't see MIL as she is in Spain and she's starting a new on Monday and is already anxious.

[Tinker]

geekgirl - I'm so sorry to hear this. Personally, I would tell the truth. My eldest is 10 and my mum died in May this year. I think they do need to know so as, as you say, not imagine even worse (if there can be!) scenarios. And they also need to know that it's ok to cry and it's ok that you cry, that it's normal. I'm really sorry that you're going through this.

A good book for children, if you can find it on Amazon, is Badger's Parting Gifts.

[EffiePerine]

Sorry to hear this. Another good book is Sad by Michael Rosen. Doesn't deal with bereavement specifically, just what feeling sad is like

www.amazon.co.uk/Michael-Rosens-Sad-Book-Rosen/dp/0744598982/ref=sr_1_1/202-9697070-9484615?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21 e=UTF8&s=books&qid=1184070125&sr=8-1

[bundle]

oh geekgirl, I'm so sorry

My dad died last November and I tried to be as honest as possible with my girls (then aged 3 and 6) in an age-appropriate way. When I knew the end was close I explained to them that he was going to die and that it wouldn't hurt. I explained that the doctors had tried their very best and they couldn't make him better (he had a number of health problems but Alzheimers disease had made the last year or so very hard for us all, especially my mum). I took them to see him a few weeks before and told them that he might look and behave differently.

The staff at the hospital were amazing, using something called an end of life care pathway, helping you to plan for a death, including pain relief, and just chatting about what will happen. They will also respect your father's wishes to be in denial about what's going to happen. They may be able to help you talk to your daughter about her grandmother's illness.

I know you don't want to upset your dad or mum, but I feel that you'd like to tell your little girl the facts and she may then ask them about them, which is natural. If you explain to your parents what you've told her then that might help them to cope with any questions. Maybe you'd like to help her put together a little book or box of photographs and mementoes that will help her to remember her grandmother.

Letting your children see that you are feeling sad is crucial imo, bottling up emotions isn't something a parent should try to pass onto their children and it's lovely that they comfort you.

Wishing you every strength during this heartbreaking time for you and your family, xxxx

[bundle]

lots of good advice here. the Sad book is v moving.

also - share with dd1 the fact that your dad feels the way he does - and she'll probably respect his wishes about not talking about it.

[MamaGryffindor]

geekgirl I'm terribly sorry to hear this. I went through something very similar with my Dad but my DD was much younger so i don't really have any practical advice.

if you want to CAT me to talk about your feelings, feel free

[chocolateteapot]

Geekgirl, I do hope you don't mind but I have started a similar thread as I'm now questionning whether I would be doing the right thing not telling my DD.

[geekgirl]

you're all so lovely to me - thank you so much. I've ordered the Sad Book and Badger's parting gifts and a book about losing a parent (what a sad shopping basket that was).

so sorry to everybody who has been through this

[bundle]

geekgirl, feel free to rant/CAT etc, it's a tough time and no one should have to feel they need to hold back, x

[wrinklytum]

Geekgrrl,just seen this.

So sorry re your mum.

Canncerbackup have an excellent website.

They also have a freephone number 0808 800 1234 for people with cancer and their relatives.

They do various publications about different aspects of cancer.These are free to patients and relatives.

There is one called "Talking to children about cancer"

Can be ordered on 0207 6969003

hth and hugs if you do them,Wrinkly.

[geekgirl]

thank you, that's really useful, will order it

yes to hugs, need them right now

[lemonaid]

My grandfather died of pancreatic cancer when I was 8 and I was very angry with my parents at the time (still am a bit now, come to think of it) that I hadn't been told that that was what was going to happen.

So I would definitely plan to tell your DD, fairly soon. Get your head around how to discuss the subject first, but don't leave it too late.