5 year old having toilet accidents since starting school.

[Millarkie]

We need help

Just turned 5 year old dd has been having several poo accidents a day since she started reception in September. She had done this a couple of times in the past, when her nursery teacher changed and when we got a new nanny but it always stopped in a week or so.
We are now several weeks into term and if anything it's getting worse, more accidents and now she wees and poos.

We took her to the GP a week ago and he thought it was constipation/overflow (although I pointed out that what she was producing was not liquid poo) and put her on movicol..this just lead to her having 8 or 9 runny accidents a day and having to have complete changes of clothes at school We have another GP appointment next week but in the meantime has anyone been here, done that and got any ideas we could try,

We've tried:
talking about poo being waste food and it needing to come out and get flushed away
checking that she knows where school loos are (but she has accidents at home as well so it's not that)
star charts for poos in loo (but she didn't do any so we tried stars for wees on loo, and stars for telling us she needs changing)
teacher sends her to the toilet every 30 mins (school are 'being supportive).
Giving her no attention when cleaning up accidents
Getting her to clean up after herself after accidents
Giving her extra attention in general.

She supposedly loves school, is getting on ok socially, is speeding ahead with reading and maths. And she was in a full-time school nursery before reception so she is actually doing shorter days now than she was before.

Thanks for any suggestions.

[Millarkie]

Thank you Watchtheworld..nice to know we aren't alone

[Millarkie]

Bumping for any suggestions

[Millarkie]

Bump for evening crowd.

[DesperateHousewifeToo]

Sounds like constipation to me.

Do a search of soiling or encopresis. There are lots of threads about this.

It can take a long time to 'sort it out', especially if it has been going on for a while i.e. months not a week.

The bowel has to be re-trained so the dc can feel the need to poo again.

What helped for our ds was to not blame him. It is not their fault and beyond their control.

Make sure your dd is drinking plenty of water as well as eating fruit and veg. This still causes problems for ds when he, ocasionally, forgets to drink enough.

HTH a little. there is loads of advice if you do the searches.

I'm glad your dd seems happy at school. That is great.

[Millarkie]

Thanks DesperateHousewife - I have read all the threads about encopresis (read them before I took her to the GP) but I just can't believe she is constipated - half term week she had some normal poos and was still messing her pants 3 or 4 times a day..and she has never had to strain for a bowel movement or said it hurt. The GP couldn't examine her tummy because she was ticklish and wriggled (!)
Today she has had clean pants all day (and according to dd she has used the toilet) so fingers crossed that we are on the up again.

[DesperateHousewifeToo]

It took me a while to realise that was what my ds was suffering from because he didn't have tummy ache, strain, and had normal poos too.

But he did have impacted faeces that the gp could feel and took quite a few months to sort out.

Of course, I'm no doctor () so your dd may not be suffering from this at all. Her symptoms do sound very familiar though.

I'd continue doing what you have been recommended to by gp and go back for your follow-up appointment. I really hope you mange to sort this out - it's horrible, isn't it? No matter what the cause.

[Millarkie]

Oh they do sound similar don't they! The good news is that she has pooed in the loo twice this evening - we have sung, danced, put stickers on and had choccie buttons
Have suggested to dh that we give her straws to drink with to see if she'll drink more (she has what I think is a reasonable amount to drink during the day but more can't be bad). She has a very fruit/veg packed diet as it is.
More finger crossing.
Am taking her to a different GP this time since I think she was wriggling because he seemed embarrassed to examine her! Going to try a female GP and see if dd will stay still.

[DesperateHousewifeToo]

I know, I became obsessed with ds' toilet habits for a while and would fight with dh about getting to the loo first to see the 'results'!

Had to know about frequency, texture and quantity and would be very annoyed if loo was flushed before I had had a good look, lol.

Would even question dh on all of the above if necessary

Ds needed medication for a few weeks to get into the routine of going regularly. For him, drinking more water during the day was the biggest change. He was already eating lots of fruit and veg but that was just causing more over-flow as the impacted stuff needed clearing.

Hope the different gp is more successful. Could you 'play' doctors and show her what will happen. It might be less tickly if dd puts her own hands on her tummy too- makes the brain think it is her own hands doing the touching and so doesn't tickle.

Good luck

[coveredinsnot]

Hi there, if you send me a private message via the email button, I can send you two really useful documents that psychologists often give out to parents when working with children with encopresis. It sounds to me like she may be having some difficulty processing and dealing with change, have you tried letting her talk about her feelings about school, or getting her to draw about it, or play schools with you with some dolls? This might let you in on how she's finding things. If it's not overflow encopresis, then your best bet would be to get referred to your local community mental health team via your GP, or an encopresis clinic if there is one. Hope this helps!

[heidifuss]

Hi coveredinsnot, I am new to this and having trouble with private message. Please could you send the details to me - [email protected]

Many thanks

[DarkAngel80]

Hi,im a nuresery nurse and it sounds to me like it could just be down to change. I'd try asking her if she is happy at school dont just take what the teachers tell you as fact as they might just not have realised there is something upsetting her. Ask her bout her friends and if she has fallen out with anyone. Children react to things in many different ways. If you are still conserned talk to the dr when you go and make sure they listen to everything you say to get a clear picture. hope that is of help to you

[DarkAngel80]

Hi,im a nuresery nurse and it sounds to me like it could just be down to change. I'd try asking her if she is happy at school dont just take what the teachers tell you as fact as they might just not have realised there is something upsetting her. Ask her bout her friends and if she has fallen out with anyone. Children react to things in many different ways. If you are still conserned talk to the dr when you go and make sure they listen to everything you say to get a clear picture. hope that is of help to you

[OlliesMummy1]

Hello - Just joined today in the desperate hope that someone can suggest something I haven't tried already! My 5 year old Son has been soiling on and off for about 9 months. He?s been at school since Jan. (At first I thought it was school anxieties) He goes for a few weeks with no accidents at all to two or three a week. Doctor said nothing medically wrong, has referred us to school nursing team who haven?t contacted me (!) He says he?s too busy or doesn?t want to miss his lunch or the game he?s playing. I?ve tried charts, rewards, being sad, angry, calm, not bothered, bothered?.aggghhhhh. Why doesn?t he realise it?s wrong? He does get upset when it happens and asks his teacher not to tell me, but he also lies about whether he has had an accident when it?s obvious he has. So he must know it?s wrong after all. Jeez I?m confused! I tried the Poo goes to Pooland story (That actually worked for a while)?what am I doing wrong? How can I help him? I?m really at my wits end?I don?t want the other kids to notice and start calling him names. It?s really starting to get me down?You?re my last hope?. Please help! x Anyone??..

[mum2samandalex]

When i was younger and started school i suffered from stomach migraines which is a child form of adult migraine. It caused me to have stomach upsets and frequently needed the loo more often and cause me to have accidents.

[Millarkie]

I started this thread back in November last year - we ended up paying for a private referral to a paediatric gastroenterologist who took some blood tests to test for things like gluten intolerance but also did an x-ray. The x-ray showed that dd's colon is the wrong shape and very very large. This is sometimes a condition children are born with and sometimes caused by a period of constipation (which stretches the colon wall out).
My advice would be to try to get your child seen by someone who will do some proper testing. We were told that it was anxiety/naughtiness by 3 GPs so we were losing patience with her, to see the problem clearly on an x-ray has taken away the 'blame' from dd and although she still has accidents (she is on medication and will be for months) we are all much happier knowing what's going on.