9yo dd has had 3 or 4 major tantrums lasting upto 3 hours in past 12 months - any advice

[TLBTOG]

My lovely, kind, thoughtful sweet and pretty normal 9yo daughter has occasional tendencies to 'turn'. At first I thought it was hormones but this has gone on for the past three years at least.

It is very difficult to even describe what she becomes but it involves shouting (more recently swearing) hiding in the shower etc. Physical abuse - against us. It usually reduces either me or dh to tears out of worry and frustration at our inability to stem this hideous anger that comes out. Last time was on holiday and we were on the top floor of a hotel (3 floors) we wouldn't let her out of our sight just in case she did something dangerous - an awful thought to have; (and we immediately felt stupid and guilty for even thinking it) but one that crossed both our minds - but here I think we were judging her actions as an adult and not a childs thought processes.

My concern is that there is something seriously wrong as after these 'episodes' are over she is unbelievably upset and contrite and also shocked that she could have been like that and needs reassurance and cuddles. It is also very upsetting for her younger brother to witness at age 6.

She has no control at these times and doesn't seem to know what she is doing she almost goes 'animal'

MY dh thinks I could be overreacting when I suggest a trip to our GP on my own to discuss this - so I thought perhaps someone out there may recognise this behaviour and know a little more than me?

She is at other times, a lovely normal, down to earth kid who is kind and thoughtful and good at winding her younger brother up!

It's been a long time since I came on here for advice but it's always been reassuring to know you're not alone!

[NotQuiteCockney]

I would get help, this is a bad pattern she's got in, and you can't keep dealing with this!

I was wondering, does anyone else in her life behave this way, or anything like it? And what are the triggers? And what calms her down?

I guess, if I was trying to handle this myself, I'd a) rethink my parenting techniques, and make sure I was modelling the sort of behaviour I wanted to see from her (How to talk so kids will listen, and listen so kids will talk, basically) b) do some emotional literacy work with her - get her to talk about the run up to her last tantrum (hopefully it was recent?) and how that felt, and what was going on. Talk to her about how it's fine to be angry, and good to talk about her anger, but not to stomp and shout and be violent. See if you can get her involved, get her to take a time out (or a hug, or whatever works) when her mood starts to go wrong.

I don't know how I'd deal with my child during - probably leave him/her alone as much as possible, because they need to learn to self-soothe. Hard to do if you're worried about their safety, or in a strange place.

[TLBTOG]

I agree - especially about the parenting style. We are not perfect but neither of us go off on one and we are (I think) a happy open and friendly family amongst ourselves and others - we are well liked and all adore each other (most of the time) but we are normal and get things wrong. In
the lead up to her episodes even when we recognise them and try to head them off we can't. Last time - she seemed to calm down and I took her to get some food hoping that would help to stabilse her and we had a discussion about how it's ok to be angry etc. 10 mins later she went into one again and threw everything back in my face about what I had just said. We are at these points the worst, meanest parents in the world and totally hated and despised!! Its had to convey that although this sounds like a normal typical childs tantrum there is more substance and ferocity to it than usual and that's what concerns me most.

I don't know where to turn really.

Our parenting style is firm but fair (occasionally strict) and we try to be consistent but we haven't developed a coherent strategy to these newer more difficult challnges.

[NotQuiteCockney]

I'd try How to Talk So Kids will Listen and Listen so Kids will talk, with a dash of explicit emotional literacy.

Can you tell us some more about the last one? What was she angry about?

I would blame hormones, early puberty or something, but if it's been for 3 years, then I don't know what to say.

Is hunger a trigger? (Guessing based on the food.) Tiredness? New situations?

[Snigs]

Big warning here, as the following is about me, and it's not at all probable as being similar to your daughter. Tbh, I've thought long and hard about whether to post at all, but in the end I thought I should.
Simply, when I was little, I was quiet, shy, warm, etc too. I lived in a loving family and was happy mostly, but I also had red mist rages - I remember bashing my head against walls, etc, etc. I genuinely didn't know what it was about, but it was uncontrollable and I hated myself for getting into such a state. Nobody understood why I got like that, including me.
Now as a grown up looking back, it's horribly obvious what was causing it, as I was abused from a very early age by my maternal grandfather. I told no-one until I was an adult. My family still don't know. This is definitely what was causing my rages though, as that level of repressed emotion obviously had to come out somehow.

I'm not at all saying something similar is the cause of your daughter's outbursts. Maybe there is something deep inside that she's troubled by, but the chances are there isn't. I couldn't not post though, as your description of her struck a chord. I sincerly hope you don't go into a tail spin because of this. Please don't.

[singyswife]

Also I wanted to add (but didnt know if I should) that my friends dd (she has sn though) gets like this and it is related to her epilepsy. I would be tempted to take her to the gp, if there is nothing medically wrong with her then they can at least help with solutions, anger management etc.

[TLBTOG]

hI ALL

I can't believe I haven't been on here for so long. I really appreciate the messages and don't worry I haven't gone into a tail spin.

Snigs - I concur with your reply but find it hard to work out where the contact would be (and I have considered it as a possibility) coming from if this were the case. I remember having red mist rages as a child and cetainly my PMT has its moments so maybe it's hereditary. My other concern now is that she has begun to tell me she hears voices. I haven't mentioned this to dh yet but I have asked her to write down what she hears and when, to keep a diary of it - as it could just be an over active imagination. I am worried about going to the GP as I don't want her to feel there is something wrong and make a big issue about all of this. At the moment her behaviour is fine occassionally petulant but she IS 9!

It is very hard to know which way to turn - am I overreacting, is it all part of growing up or not?

I think I will have a quick chat to one of my GP's as he is a good listener and pretty down to earth.

Many thanks once again

and apolgies for taking so long to log on - I am out of the habit!

[TLBTOG]

Snigs

I forgot to say thank you for posting - my heart goes out to you - I have a friend whose parents had to move to the states and left her and her brother in the care of her maternal grandparents for a few months and this also happened. When she finally confided to her mum she wasn't believed and her mother became hysterical - years later it turned out he'd done the same thing to his daughter (her mum) as well. It took a lot for you to post that and I understand your motivation - Thank you.

[anniebear]

I would defo go to your GP, but without her so you can talk openly

Hope it goes well, let us know