Worried by something DD said today about watching something "rude".

[mum2lovely2]

Sorry in advance if this is long winded. I'm really concerned about something that my daughter said today and I need some help/advice.

Today was my daughters first day at school (only half days until October). She was very happy when I picked her up and she said she'd had a good time. Her best friend from nursery was starting school too and she was pleased to see her as they haven't seen each other since nursery finished in July.

Over lunch she was talking about school and she mentioned something called "Alfie", she said they (my daughter and her best friend) had been laughing about it while they were putting on their coats to come home. She said it was very rude and Alfie had put his willy in his mouth. I couldn't believe what I was hearing but since it seemed to be related to school I asked her if she had seen this at school. She said it was on the Nick Jr website and she and her friend had watched it at our house. They have watched Nick Jr on the television and my daughter has played on the website but they have never played on the website together. When I said this my daughter told me they had watched it at her friends house. She said it was rude but "the funny bit was when he put his willy in his mouth". She also told me he had wee'd in his mouth. I asked her if she could show me on the website but she said "no, it's 18 plus and it's only for young children" and she can't let me watch it because "the police will come". Because she told me that it was for young children I asked her if it was a boy or a man and she said it was a man. I asked her if anybody else had watched it with them and she said her friend's mum and gran had watched it and they thought it was funny! I asked her again a bit later if this was something she had seen or something her friend had told her about and she said her friend had told her about it but she was lying. I got the impression that she said this just to shut me up so I didn't ask any more questions. I know I shouldn't have kept asking questions but I was so shocked and couldn't believe what I was hearing. I want to believe that this is something innocent that she's got confused about but there is nothing innocent about what she has described. I know they did not see anything like this at my house because when her friend has visited I have always been the only adult with them, apart from once when the girl's mum visited with her.

Has anyone else had any experience of anything like this and if so what did you do? What should I do? Should I speak to the girls mum about it? She's always seemed perfectly nice and I just don't know what to think or do. I'm really worried about what has actually happened, my daughter has only been to her friends house twice because the second time she visited (around April) she said she didn't want to go there again because she was scared of being scratched by her friends cat.

Both the girls have older brothers and are probably no strangers to willy talk but obviously this isn't something I would expect either of them to have seen or heard. My daughter was not distressed in any way when she told me about it because to her it was funny but why hasn't she said anything until now? I don't want her to play at her friends house again if there is even the slightest chance that this has happened there. Also the fact that my daughter initially said that they had watched this at our house is strange because I know she did not so does this mean that it didn't happen at her friend's house either and if that's the case what did happen and where has this all come from?
I know that no one can answer these questions for me but has anyone been through anything similar and if so what did you do?

[Doodle2U]

I think the starting point is a chat with the other girl's mum. Explain what's been said and ask her what she makes of it.

[mum2lovely2]

Yes Doodle2U, I know I should talk to her about it but it's a difficult thing to bring up in conversation and she will probably be defensive and think I'm accusing her.

[snackattack]

Wow, I can see why you are worried! How old is your dd?? If she's only 4 or 5 how on earth would she know what "18 plus" was unless she'd been told..... very worrying to be honest and I'd definitely ask the mum - without accusing her of course......

[pagwatch]

there is no reason why she would seem distressed is there?
She has absoloutely no idea of what is sexual and what isn't at her age.
If she actually saw a video from an adult website showing exactly what she described there is no reason why she would view that as wrong.
It is a grooming technique to show young children inappropriate images or actions and THEN tell them it is wrong and their parents will be disgusted/upset etc if they ever tell. Keeps a confused child quiet and frightened.

I am not saying that is what is happening here !!
I am just stressing that you should not take any lack of distress as an indication that what may or may not have happened must be innocent

Many abused children have no idea that what relative or friend is doing is wrong until they are old enough to be deeply ashamaned and too ashamed to tell.

[mum2lovely2]

Yes you're right pagwatch I know that the fact that she wasn't distressed when she told me doesn't mean anything, to her it was "rude" and therefore funny.

[snackattack]

mum2 - what really worries me are her words about it being 18 and about the police - those are not the words of a young child... the question is really what on earth to do about it all. You have no proof that something was shown to them - and I take your point that it's totally embarrassing to bring it up but could you perhaps do it in a jokey way and test the waters... "I'm embarrassed to say this but X says she's seen someone's willy on the computer - is there any way they could have accessed the internet"... just in a totally non accusatory way.... I realise it's terribly difficult. Also, I just would NOT risk letting your dd go to this girls' house again. Very tough but not worth even the slightest risk.... worried about that little girl too...

[pagwatch]

the trouble is that the guy who abused me was just so terribly, incredibly plausible. Even as an adult people found it hard to believe me ( so much so that I actually stopped trying to tell people but that is a whole other issue) I am not sure what the mum could say to make me comfortable.

very very reluctantly - I don't think I would let my DD go there any more either.
And I am someone who hates the whole Paedophile hysteria.
I just think this is too dodgy.

[TheNaughtiestGirlIsaMonitor]

My dd is 6 and I'd be concerned if she started talking about "18+" for a start!!

[wabbit]

I think it would be worth talking to the mum... you could couch it in terms of concern for her dd too... perhaps they've both had this experience without other mum knowing. I know I would want to know if my dd had been talking to her best friend about these very adult images... and the terminology too is worrying.

Don't think I could not talk to the mother as it might be only her dd who's being subjected to the images, and talking to your dd as she's 'safe' to talk to... a conspirator if you like

[CoolYourJets]

Could it have been anime? Some of that is really explicit and weird. Can be popular with teenage boys too.

Whatever it is it sounds well dodgy.

[mum2lovely2]

snackattack, the non accusatory approach would be a good one to take with the girl's mum and I hope I can pluck up the courage to do that. My daughter always looks at toys in the shops and says "it's 3+, 4+ etc. and I'm 3+ aren't I mummy" so it is something she says anyway but I've never heard her say 18+ before. She's asked a lot of questions about the police lately and I've explained to her that the police only arrest bad people.
CoolYourJets, what is anime?

[Hassled]

The other thing you could do is talk to the Head at your school for some impartial advice. She/he will have been trained in child protection and might have some insights.

Anime - Japanese cartoons but aimed at teenagers/adults (I think). Has a bit of a cult following.

[CoolYourJets]

anime

Yep japanese cartoons styled a bit like pokemon but can be for adults and you do get hardcore pornographic anime. Obviously as it is animated it can be um non -realistic monsters enlarged bits weirdy weirdy stuff.

I might have picked you up wrong but it sounded from your orignal post that a bloke was performing a sex act on himself which is why I thought anime/alfie. Sounds a bit similar.

[PinkTulips]

have your tried googling alfie and 18+ to see if anything obvious pops up? it might give you a better idea of what she saw if you can find it yourself.

[snackattack]

Pink - I did just that!! And I found a website called "Alfie's willy" - which was just that - a pic of a man called Alfie and his willy.... various other links but I didn't progress down that route.... also googled Alfie and Nick Jr and couldn't come up with anything plausible.
Love the idea of mentioning it to teacher. My mum is a child protection officer - I'll have a word with her too and see what she recommends....

[LauraGas]

Does sound a bit worrying. The film Alfie (with sienna miller & jude law) is an 18 and I haven't seen it but don't know if there's any willy bits in it. Maybe the friends mum & gran were watching this? Would definately talk to the mum about it though.

[mum2lovely2]

CoolYourJets, it's possible that this could be what they've seen as the girl has an older brother, about 12 or 13. Also the fact that these are cartoons could explain why the girls would have thought they were watching Nick Jr. Or am I too desperate to find an innocent explanation?

Hassled, I think I should talk to the girl's mum before I approach the Head, it's just so hard to do.

[mum2lovely2]

Yes snackattack, I did try googling Alfie and Nick Jr and even looked on the website for some character with a similar name. I've just looked at the "Alfie's willy" site and it's Alfie Allen, Lily Allen's brother. Don't think this would be it.
The girl's mum is really nice and very involved with the school and I really don't want to embarrass her if there is an explanation for this so, as I said, I will have to talk to her first.

[mum2lovely2]

Forgot to say thanks everyone who has posted, it's good to have some advice and support. I have to go now to put the children to bed and then I need to talk to DH about this as he's been out all day and obviously he needs to know what is happening so that we can decide what to do.

[Hassled]

CoolYourJet's theory is an excellent one - would explain the "Alfie" thing, the fact she thought it was NickJr and also - sort of, and in a weird, twisted way - why the Mum and Gran were there and seemed to think it was OK. It's possible they really are so stupid that they think a pornographic cartoon is OK for 4 year olds because it is a cartoon.

Could you ask your DD if it was real people or drawings of people? Or is that just going to put the idea of real people doing it into her head and then scare the wits out of her (if it was a cartoon she saw)?