DD (12) completely uncontrollable

(12 Posts)
PassTheDutchie Wed 20-Mar-19 08:24:55

DD is in year 7. Has had some bullying issues in primary but never effected her behaviour other than she was quite withdrawn.
Since October, she is in constant trouble at school. She is rude to me constantly.
She has been withdrawn from classes several times for disruption, and has been part of in school exclusions several times for fighting.
Nothing I do is getting through to her, she is seriously close to being kicked out of school. It's only her mentor who is stopping the head of year kicking her out at this point.
I've tried removing tech, TV time, not let her have mates over, early bed time, you name it, I've tried it. I've tried talking to her, she blames everyone but herself, the teachers "pick on her" other pupils "wind her up". She's been given a time out card so if class is getting too much she can have ten minutes out, a teacher will then come out and see what's going on. She has never bothered using it though. She was allowed to move maths classes as the school recognised she was struggling in the class she was in and with the group of kids she was with so I felt the school were very understanding on that and went along with their suggestion. At that point she only said that specific teacher had an issue with her, but now there are about 6(!) who she swears are against her. And when I say I don't buy it, one is feasible (just- we all remember having one teacher who we thought was an arse and we thought felt the same way) but 6 plus the head of year is ridiculous. But then she screams at me that I'm bullying her and hate her for saying so. That's all she does, just total aggression.
She used to love singing and acting, now she doesn't bother, the school have lots of clubs going all for free and she only goes to cheer squad or her best friend can't go anymore.
It's all come to a head. We were meant to go to town after school- first time in months she's shown any interest in doing anything with me. It's her Dad's birthday party on Saturday and we have bought her something nice to wear, but even that has caused arguments as she wants to wear her usual sloppy outfit of leggings and a sweatshirt, so I said she could have some more chunky boots and make her outfit a bit edgy like the YouTubers she likes. When she got in the car she said she had been kicked out of class-second time since Friday. So I said she was grounded. I told her she was lucky it's a party for her dad or she wouldn't be going. I was cross with her because I've repeatedly told her she needs to stop it, at the moment they school will see it as a temporary blip because she's settling in but if she carries on, the staff will end up refusing to teach her and she will be kicked out.
She blamed teacher and pupils again. She then acts to her dad that I've been awful to her and cries rather than anger like I get. Now he's been miffed with me saying me telling her off isn't helping. But then he told her off as well.
Honestly don't know what to do. She has a little group of three friends and none of them are like this. I worry that the teachers just see her as a little trouble maker now and even if she isn't at fault she's going to automatically get in trouble.
She's never been violent to anyone before this, she's even kicked me recently and hits her younger brother. When she's at home she goes to bed as soon as she gets home from school, but she doesn't sleep until gone 11pm then says she's tired. She shows no interest in anything anymore. I've checked her phone in case of bullying or anything else and nothing. If anything she tells a girl from primary that everything is cool at school!
I'm so worried.

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JiltedJohnsJulie Wed 20-Mar-19 19:41:50

I can imagine you are very worried. What have the school suggested so far? Has she been referred to CAHMS?

PassTheDutchie Thu 21-Mar-19 19:54:31

They suggested CAHMs, but she is still on the waiting list from when she was bullied and that referral was made 4 years ago. I've contacted them again at the school's suggestion (I have phoned before now) to be told she's not in "urgent need" so she's nowhere nearer to getting seen. She's not even been telephone triaged. School said they would call but again they got nowhere.
She's now lost her lunchtime for being abusive to a boy yesterday, for a week.
The teacher who removed her from his class earlier in the week contacted me by email to let me know what happened, she had completely lied to me and I assured him she was being disciplined here too. He got straight back to me and I genuinely think he was surprised I had said how cross we are with her, he has offered to chat to her. It makes it worse that he said she's actually really bright, she's chucking it away.
I've tried reading the Ofsted reports to her of the school's she'd end up in, in an attempt to scare her to behave. She just shrugged.

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Alyosha Fri 22-Mar-19 21:16:44

I don't have any experience with tweens/teenagers, but this sudden onset bad behaviour makes me think there could be something else going on - don't want to say it, but do you think there is any possibility she is being abused?

PassTheDutchie Fri 22-Mar-19 21:43:46

It's something I mentioned to her mentor. She didn't think so. Unless it was happening at school, she doesn't go off on her own yet.
Her mentor said in her opinion, it's her way of stopping herself being bullied again. She was battered daily by the gang at her primary before we removed her and her younger DS.
They both ended up at a really supportive primary afterwards, who taught her what happened wasn't her fault (old one had told her to be resilient and made her do art therapy whilst the Ratbags hitting her got away Scott free). They also taught her she should stick up for herself more and speak up if someone was picking on her. I think that she's carried on with that but upped the ante.
She picked the school she's at, but she was quite nervy starting. She also got a bit of grief off a girl in her year for a bit but was dealt with quickly.
Mentor reckons she's seen it before. It's fight or flight. She's chosen fight.
She's now working on a project of making better choices in her time out (lunchtime as she's lost those until Wednesday) with the mentor, who has said she is slowly going to ask her to talk about the bullying.
I also wonder if hormones are making her haywire. She's definitely showing signs of puberty in other ways, perhaps AF is on its way and she'll calm down once it does?
This evening though, she came and sat on me on the sofa like she used to as a younger kid and asked for a hug. She's not done anything of the sort for months. She also apologised for upsetting me.

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user4564376534875487 Sat 23-Mar-19 12:37:13

Various possible reasons but I don't think punishment is the answer. She is obviously struggling, maybe lacking confidence, feeling overwhelmed. I have a dd of about a similar age and she has given up lots of clubs etc. during y7 we have only just managed to get her along to something to give it a try now she is in y8, I wondered if my dd was a bit depressed, nothing situational more hormone related, dd is very up and down and doesn't know exactly why she feels like this but just does. Keep up with the hugs, try and empathise, hopefully things will improve, my dd comes to me for hugs/to talk when she wants to. Punishment isn't really the answer but saying that you don't like the way she shouts/answers back whatever it is in a calm way to let her know her behaviour is unacceptable - that's my view anyway, it can be a horrible age...I have vague recollections of it. I was bullied around this age and we don't always think of later consequences eg effect on education until a bit later. My dd is very self conscious, gently, gently, only pick battles worth fighting, an outfit isn't the end of the world. My dd goes to an all girls school so boys aren't part of the equation. DD goes to bed late, much later than I would like, lights out but she is still awake, tricky - changing bodyclock?, my dd often reads before bed, I always seem to have a battle with screens, this is my biggest bug bear.

user4564376534875487 Sat 23-Mar-19 12:38:54

My dd is still awaiting the arrival of her AF, so cant answer this but suspect it has a large to play in what's going on hormonally/mood wise.

user4564376534875487 Sat 23-Mar-19 12:56:05

The mentor sounds like they are doing a good job and are in the right job too, just listening to your dd will probably be a tremendous support, especially if it is someone your dd believes she can open and talk to, I wish my dd had this sometimes - another adult other than me and dh but we don't - no relatives (balanced ones anyway) My dd had problems with another girl at school but this has been resolved now, my dd with our support was largely able to resolve this herself, I don't think she has anyone she feels that she can talk to like the mentor you describe although there is supposed to be support available.

Flamingo84 Sat 30-Mar-19 20:54:40

It sounds like it’s a mix of normal hormone overload and the previous bullying she experienced. The mentor sounds very supportive which is great. From what you’ve written it sounds like starting the new school has given her a chance to re-invent herself. In the high school she’s not the bullied kid. She’s the tough, cool girl who doesn’t take any messing. Unfortunately that’s not going to last long if she gets kicked out.
I know this might sound silly but have you thought of taking her to a class at the gym like boxercise/kickboxing/self defence etc? If she is in the cheer squad she might like it. It might also benefit her in a number of ways. The physical exercise might help her sleep better, it can be a safe way to let out her anger/frustration, taking instruction might help with her growing bucking of authority and it might give her a sense of personal safety.
Also do your employer/DH’s have a Employee Assistance service? They can offer a few counselling sessions free of charge to family members.
I’m just remembering how full of anger and confusion I felt at that age, it’s not easy to navigate. I think that the shouting at mum but crying to dad is pretty normal for girls (I wouldn’t have dared shouting at my dad no matter how feisty the hormones made me!). I can’t imagine how it must feel now with technology recording their every move and little embarrassment.
You sound like a loving, concerned mother who is doing everything you can think of to reach out to her. She may not appreciate it now but in years to come she will look back on these days and thank heavens she had you to support her.

Goldmandra Sun 31-Mar-19 21:34:07

I think you need to stop the sanctions and read around girls with Asperger's Syndrome

The average age for diagnosis is mid teens because girls can mask their symptoms very effectively. There are several things you've described that are familiar to me. I have two DDs with AS.

PassTheDutchie Mon 01-Apr-19 09:15:49

Hi all sorry for not responding.

AS is something we wondered about, our younger DS has Aspergers. We have asked CAHMs to look into it but as with most areas, the waiting list is huge, we are still waiting to see them from when she was bullied.
She's now on report at school. I'm gutted by it.
I agree that perhaps going to secondary gave her the opportunity to reinvent herself. She's also not with DS for the first time- with his illnesses she always took on a role as carer and responsible for him whilst they were at school. We never asked her to of course, but she's a very caring kid to younger ones.
We've not told her yet but DH has been offered a really good job away from where we live now, nearer to family as well. I dread saying anything as I worry it could make her worse, but by all accounts the head of year is looking for any excuse to remove her permanently and I think that if she's excluded, no decent school will accept her. DH is very keen to go, our current area is awful which is another worry with her.
I'm going to look into gym sessions for her age, she enjoys swimming as well.

OP’s posts: |
PassTheDutchie Thu 04-Apr-19 10:51:28

Another update

I took her out on Saturday and had a chat. She had spoken to my niece the weekend before-niece is 23 and at uni, she thinks the world of her. Niece told me that DD said that the reason she is getting in trouble is down to a boy in her year. He keeps winding her up. Apparently, boy asked her out months ago and has said he wants to date every girl in their year group. DD has no interest in boys at all so said no. Since then, boy has intimidated her. He also asked her mate- mates situation is difficult and she is vulnerable, so she said yes as she felt she had to or else. Boy was then hitting her friend for hanging around with DD so that was why the first time that DD clumped him one. However, DD was the one who got punished and segregated.
Since then, boy deliberately goes over and mouths off threatening her. She the hits him as she is sick of him intimidating her and her friend. School are aware this has gone on but say as long as he doesn't hit her they won't act.
Now, I'm not saying she is right to hit him. But if the school know why, and that no matter how many times it happens she gets in trouble and it happens again within days, surely they need to act?
Had sent a message to DDs mentor to update but she is off sick sadly.
Got a call yesterday from someone else (one of the four(!) Assistant Deputy Heads) who I've not met or spoken to. Really rude woman!
She rung as yet again this lad had kicked off and yet again, DD hit him and yet again he has run and grassed her up. He clearly knows what he's doing. So DD was meant to do Segregation again. I pointed out her mentor had said no more of these days as they do nothing but deny her a days education, they don't work. Supposedly one of the three other Assistant Deputy Heads had agreed. So I said I would not support this action and she should go to class.
Woman kept shouting over me saying no of she's in she's being segregated, she refused to comment on this boys actions or why he would go and seek her out knowing he will be hit, she told me they set the rules and tough.
She then put the phone down on me! Totally rude and unhelpful despite my being polite, I just wanted to talk it over.
DD went in today and I have her a letter, containing my concerns and why I had told her not to attend segregation.
About an hour ago, got a frantic text from DD, they had dragged her from class, and refused to read my letter. She had escaped to the loo and text me. She was hysterical.
Drove up to school and they told me another Assistant Deputy Head was on her way.
This one was as rude as the other. As far as they are concerned, their rule is hitting equals segregation. I pointed out some of the stuff done to DD that didn't include violence but was disgusting so didn't get dealt with the same way and she was just so smug and ignorant. I can honestly say I'm not surprised DD has been how she has, they are so one dimensional.
In my opinion, the boys behaviour is tantamount to sexual harassment. He gets told no and so starts on the girl in retaliation. That worries me a lot, especially with her friend as if the school don't act, what's next? I get that she has to be told but it's going to carry on all the while they don't act strongly on this boys behaviour.
We brought her home as they told us whilst she is there, they don't respect my attitude and she will miss her education in segregation and that's it.
I feel like in the last few days we have actually gotten to the root of the issue. No wonder she's been so angry and upset, I had no clue what was going on, and the school haven't exactly been honest on the circumstances.

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