Sudden hysteria - normal? underlying cause?? worried as hell.... (sorry, long)

[Lovecat]

DD is 2.2. Over the last 3-4 weeks she has been becoming more and more clingy and hysterical for no apparent reason.

My first clear recollection of this was when we were in the loo at Morrisons - a cleaning lady walked in while we were washing our hands and she went absolutely bats, roaring with fear, clinging onto me, floods of tears etc. I assumed it was just because she'd gotten a shock, did my best to comfort her, and carried on.

Since then, it has gotten worse and worse. She now won't run ahead of me in the park if she can't see where the path goes, if we're going along a 'strange' road she also gets nervy and will want to be carried all the time (too darn heavy adn I have a bad back!), if a stranger comes near her she will again have a hissy fit, if we go anywhere new or different she will cling to me and get very agitated about doors leading off to other rooms (ie I had to get a new tyre, while we were waiting in the reception she got absolutely paranoid about the door leading off to the client toilets, would not even let me take her there to show her there was nothign to be scared of! On Sunday we were around at a friends, she was pottering about quite happily then suddenly became terrified of something neither of us could see and demanded to be picked up again.

Yesterday was the last straw - I asked nursery when picking her up how her day had been 'oh, fine, fine' - I then said oh, good, because dd has been v. clingy and afraid of 'nothing' lately, it then came out that when they had taken her to the loo, she had seen a mop in a bucket where it normally wasn't, and gone completely loopy, to the point where she'd wet herself with fear.

Now, aside from the issue of the nursery woman's selective memory (which I am FURIOUS about!), this is so different from my bold, confident, happy little girl of a month ago, I can't help but wonder if something is causing it. Apart from the initial shock in Morrisons loos, I'm certainly not aware of any traumatic incident that might have caused it (not that I can rely on the nursery to tell me, mutter mutter).

She has also gone slightly backwards in her toilet training, in that she is demanding a nappy to do a poo in (this happened about the same time as the Morrisons incident). She is still going to the loo to do a wee without issues.

So, I suppose what I'm asking is -

Have you experienced this with your dc?

Is it a phase? (please, please, tell me it's a phase!)

What, if anything, could be the cause of this?

Given that she becomes jumpy when she can't see what's coming/suddenly notices new things in a room, should I get her eyes/ears tested? Can you test a 2.2 yr old's eyes?

Also - do I jolly her along or not? I've been picking her up and cuddling her, talking soothingly to her, but have also been saying 'there's nothing there, look, don't be silly' - is this the right thing to do? OH says not to pick her up, it's pandering to her, but I can't help feel that will only make her anxiety worse!

Thanks for reading....

[colditz]

Don't pander at all, would be my insinct. be there, be solidly mummy, but don't be remotely concerned, because that is showing her that she is right to be concerned and frightened herself. Comfort and soothe away but imho, be a bit bored about it.

[GooseyLoosey]

I once read with young children that you should not tell them that there is nothing to be afraid of as their fears are very real to them and this will not make them go away. Instead give them coping stragtegies.

As an example, my dd (2.5) was convinced that there were monsters coming in to her room at night and no amount of telling her otherwise helped - we had lots of disturbed nights. Then I read this so changed tack and acknowledged that monsters in your room would indeed be scary but we could deal with it - she now has a special angel doll hanging in her bedroom that scares off the monsters when they come in and we told her that if she goes "roar" at monsters they will be scared and run away. It has worked!

Could you try something similar with your dd eg "I know seeing new things can be scary but if you go up to them and say hello they are not new or scary any more".

[Lovecat]

Thanks to the two of you for answering...

Has no-one else's child ever done this? Ever??

[lapsedrunner]

Sounds like an entirely normal phase, in my limited experience.

[gess]

What's she like about walking from say grass to paths? Or from road to sand? I ask because ds1 was a bit like this for a while (very fearful of going into buildings, upstairs in people's houses). All came on very suddenly. Lots of places we just couldn;t get him over the threshold. Same with sand/grass - all very sudden- fine then wham- shrieking, fighting to get away, he wouldnt even go into best friends houses, we'd coax him across the door then he'd run screaming out.

I now think in his case it was to do with depth perception. I suspect his depth perception is very poor and so at times it destabilises him. Getting him to walk on balance beams etc, and repeated exposure with no pressure to sand etc did help a lot.

Does she need to touch things a lot as well- that can be another sign.

[SquillosMum]

My DS has recently become petrified of very noisy things like big tractors, lawn mowers etc. he clings desparately to me and cries inconsolably (sp?). I don't know what set it off and don't know how to help him see they're not going to hurt him (he's 2.3 but a bit behind in talking due to being very ill last year, so he can't tell me what the problem is).

Sorry no ideas to help, just wanted you to know you're not the only one!

[Lovecat]

gess, you may have something there - although she doesn't mind different surfaces (she likes to walk 'balancing' along the join between grass and the path), she is very wary of thresholds and sometimes has to be physically carried over them. She also likes to touch everything too.

We go to tumbletots every week where she does lots of balance work and she really enjoys it (the 3rd but last hissy fit was when we were waiting in the hall vestibule for them to set our session up - we were the first ones in there and when the next little girl and her mum came in she shrieked and clung to me, insisting on being picked up - v. embarrassing!).

Thank you, lapsedrunner, that's good to know.

I had her parents evening at Nursery today, and apart from venting at the lack of info given re. yesterday, I discussed the whole issue with her keyworker, who agreed that she's been a bit insecure lately. They're going to do lots of confidence building stuff with her (not sure what, exactly, but she seemed certain that they could help).

[Olihan]

I'd be fairly certain it was just a phase. She's at the age where her imagination is starting to develop so she's just needing to get to grips with what's real and what's imagined.

I'd agree about not making a huge fuss, just be matter of fact, acknowledge that she's scared but give her a way of managing it herself. We get ds1 to blow bad dreams out of the window, cheesy but it does the trick!

The other thing I read somewhere was not to tell them they are being brave when they deal well with a scary situation because that reinforces their belief that there is something to be frightened of. Stay matter of fact and distract her with someting else.

[gess]

The other sorts of things that ds1 would do would be to stop where there was a change from carpet to wooden floorboards eg a dancefloor in a hotel- I remember him aged 3 going up to the edge of the carpet then just stopping, it took him about an hour and half to get his feet onto the dnacefloor!

Jollying him onto different surfaces absolutely did not work. I remember when we had the grass/sand thing going on dh would try and bounce him onto the grass or sand and he would just run back screaming and fighting to get away.

The out of synch child by Carol Stock Kraniwtz is good, or a session with an OT for exercises. Things like swinging, the balance beams, sittting on a swivel chair and turning for 30 seconds slowly in one direction, then the other way, can help. Also rolling in a duvet. Sounds mad, but it all helped ds1.


The hysteria - and the level of avoidance sounds identical.

[Lovecat]

Weirdly enough, gess, she went off swings just over a year ago and has only just got back into them (but still doesn't like being pushed other than v. gently).

When you say OT do you mean Occupational Therapist? (sorry to be ignorant!).

I'll look for that book in the library, ta!

Thanks for all the reassurance from everyone

[gess]

oh yes ds1 was the same. Loved swings, would spend hours on them, then overnight refused to go on them. He would kind of panic as the swing moved out of the straightr position. Before that he'd loved swinging really high. He's still not keen now.

yep OT = occupational therapist. Don't bother trying to see one on the NHS you'll be waiting years, if you ever get seen, but with one session with a private one they might give you a program to do daily at home.

[Lovecat]

Okay, looked that up on Amazon, followed a link for SPD and am now more paranoid than I was before!!

However, many of the behaviours on the checklist they give she does not exhibit so I've calmed down slightly (wibble wibble) and if this goes on will try and get an appt with an OT. Not that there appear to be any private ones in Essex...

[gess]

Oh I wouldn't get paranoid. DS2 has some form of sensory integration dysfunction and he's fine. Just makes a big fuss about things like labels, and sand at the moment! Oh and getting wet/wind blowing etc. An OT spotted him as a baby (when ds1 was being assessed "erm does he always do that?" she said pointing at ds2)Often children with SID just have one or two problematic areas- certainly the case for ds2. The OT said that she thought it was often related to c-sections and missing out on squeezing. All mine were c-sections, so could be the case (although ds3 has no problems).

DS1 has lots of other problems (which I dont for one moment think your dd has) but the depth stuff has responded well to those really simple exercises. The behaviours you describe were the ones he exhibited that related to his depth problem- nothing else. OT's are tricky to track down, generally asking around can reveal some sometimes! IME these exercises really do work though- we did 20 mins a day after bath time.

Another thing that can help is vitamin A, but you have to be careful giving it in the retinol form to young children (which is the form it really needs to be in), so I'd stick to the exercises first of all. The gym tots stuff sounds ideal.

Please don't get paranoid. I think ds1's depth perception is pretty reliable now- in fact he's a climbing/ jumping from great heights nightmare. The out of synch book is very good- it just gives the symptoms of various types of sensory problems and then exercises that will help.

[Lovecat]

Thanks very much, gess - I know it's daft to worry, but you can't help it, can you? (well, I can't, anyway...)

And yes, dd was an emergency c-section... I need to go and pick up her repeat prescription for oilatum this morning so will try and make an appt for her at the drs (a herculean feat in our health authority) to discuss this further, concentrating on the depth perception issue.

Thanks again everyone. Whether a phase or something a little more complex, I feel slightly less alone now!

[Elibean]

I think this is the age for fears - my dd at around 2 was scared of owls, bells, boys, trains and lots more I can't remember now that she is a (too) fearless 3.5 yr old

I agree with validating their feelings whilst showing that you're not scared of mops etc. I did a lot of 'are you scared of the train? You're scared of the train its ok, its not going to hurt you' then 'I like going in trains, its fun when they etc etc'.

[Elibean]

And no, you can't help worrying

I did, lots.

[gess]

Don;t expect much from your GP- it's really outside their remit. My old GP was always very interested and supportive but freely admit he knew very little.


Ds2 had all the normal fears etc, dark, monsters etc and ds2 is getting clingier in strange situations, but it was very different from the sudden hysteria (to use your words- which describes ds1's responses very well) to problems with depth. Will have a quick look in a minute and see if I can find a passage from a book which initially made me realise that this was what it was all about

[gess]

Ok I've found the passage, but its quite long. I'll type it out later if you want- it won't be directly applicable to your dd, but it describes the sudden terror- for me it was they key to understanding ds1's problems with depth because she talks about sudden terror and screaming under trees- which is something that ds1 does (then later on in the book the problems with walking on uneven ground or transitioning between different surfaces etc). It is a very good description of the depth perception problems - and might give you an idea whether that is an issue.

As I said before ds2 did have fears, and ds3 (now aged 2) is just entering that stage, but those were quite different to this thing with depth. Partly in terms of intensity (we could talk to ds2/ds3- they could/can be soothed), but also in terms of control- so ds2 could argue with us about his fears, ds3 can reason with me "can I put you down?" (as he's clinging to me) "no, me mummy up" for example- in ds1's case it was sudden wide eyed terror. I remember trying to get him into an OT's appointment- there was no way he was entering the building (it had a large open hallway), it was just physically impossible to get him across the threshold, the terror was so great. If you tried to force him into somewhere he would claw and claw at the door to get out, if you picked him up he'd then attack. Complete terror. I remember a friend visiting when he was going through the not walking on grass stage and we tried to trip to the moors. DH tried to jolly him onto the grass by picking him up and skipping across the grass/road threshold quite a long way- he put ds1 down who just turned and rang screaming back to the car then started to try and claw the door open. I remember my friend turned to me and said "hmm when you told me about this I thought you were exagerating, but I see you're not".

It is definitely worth cosidering whether it is to do with the normal toddler fearful stage, talk to people about how their kids were- but if you think its different, and not that, then don't be afraid to treat it differently, and if you do think its different I'd definitely think along sensory lines- especially depth- try sunglasses as well- especially pink/red/ ones- that can help some. You can buy different coloured sheets of acetate from art shops and see if she likes looking through any particular colour.

[Lovecat]

Wow, thanks gess I really do appreciate you taking the time to do all this.

What you've described is dd to a tee when this happens - blind, unreasoning panic, in fact if she were an adult I'd say it was a panic attack (I've had them myself - ended up fleeing a ski shop in the Alps with one ski still strapped to my foot...). She doesn't run away from the perceived danger, but she clings to me like she's drowning - I can't reason with her because she's beyond listening, and any attempt to prise her off results in her attacking me in her desperation to cling on.

Ta for the tip re. the glasses, I've got some acetates in a box somewhere (relic of amdram days) and will try her with them this afternoon if I can dig them out. She loves trying her sunglasses on (not actually wearing them, I might add...) so hopefully she'll enjoy messing about with them too.

Elibean, thanks for the reassurance and advice, also much appreciated. I'm currently swinging between 'it's just a phase' and 'omg, there's something seriously wrong with her'...

time will no doubt tell!