ADHD: Please share your experiances here. I have concerns about ds aged 4.5.

[northerner]

He has always been boisterious/full of beans but today has made me realose there may be more to it then general 'bad behaviour'

He fisgets constantly, is never still
He is often aggressive and pushes/shoves/snatches
He shouts and screams if he does not get what he wants
He never eats dinner unless it is sandwiches
His teacher has spoken to me on mnay occassions about his behaviour at school - pushing people/disrepectful to equipment

This afternoon as soon as I collected him from school he started because I said it wasn't sweetie day (he gets sweets on a Friday) and it was pasta for tea and he didn't want it.

I remained calm but firm and sent him to his room. He screamed for 20 minutes, calling me an idiot, stupid mummy etc etc. He came down stairs and refused to go bcak to his room, so I tried to carry him upstairs. He bit me, scratched me and pulled my hair.


All of this aside he is bright and is learning at school. He enjoys books/readimg and doing basic sums. He is loving, gives big hugs and adores his mummy.

We have a cat and he is often nice to her, but also throws things at her, locks her in cupboards and pokes toys in her face.

I just feel, something is not quite right, and realised today, It is getting to the point where I can't handle him when he is this mood.

I will make an appt at GP's but would welcome any comments.

I have tried to teach him compassion, to be nice and well behaved, to no avail it would seem.
Tonight I feel like such a crap mother

[Imafairy]

No advice to offer, but will be watching this with interest - my 3.5yo DS1 displays these tendancies too......

[Kaz33]

Ah with DS1 I always described him as a child not comfortable in his own skin. He is now 5 and a half.

He definitely has issues, not quite sure what they are as they are not extreme but they started to effect him both at school and at home. We have just been a long process over the last few months, with some help from a practioner to try and address them.

Things that have worked for us is cutting out sugar and food additives, banning and then cutting down on TV and computer time. Looking at his nutrition and making sure that he had everything that he needed. Also the whole process has made us address our parenting skills - which at times have been a bit slapdash

But we now have a much happier boy, who plays nicely with his little brother, talks to us, fidgets less, talks less garbage and is not at trouble at school.

He will always be the same sensitive little soul who needs careful handling, lots of positive feedback and has totally irrational fears/phobias of badges and buttons.

BUT we are more in control and have learnt more about his stresses and what we can do to help him.

Your son probably doesn't need labelling as having something wrong with him. He probably has "tendencies" and you just need to learn more about his buttons and how you can help him.

If you feel something is not right then you probably right - mum knows best, trust your instincts

Good luck

[chipkid]

you are not a crap mother!
I remember my ds at 4 being horrific at times-it was the worse point in his development.
There may well be nothing wrong-just extreme boy testosterone fuelled behaviour.

[northerner]

It's so hard though to know what is normal and what is not.

Where do you draw the line?

[mamama]

You're not a crap mother...

He sounds a like a very energetic, affectionate, strong willed little boy (and lots of little boys go through phases like this) & I'm sure it will serve him well, later in life.

I think the best thing you can do (other than the gp appointment) is to continue what you're doing - remain calm as much as possible, explain to him why he can/ can't have/ do something & the consequences of his behaviour etc.

I went on a course about ADHD recently and things that were suggested made sense & would probably help most kids with or without ADHD and I think lots of them are things many parents do anyway:

• Protein for breakfast (fish, meat or eggs (PITA on a school morning I know), protein powder in milk etc) - it helps you concentrate, apparently
  
  
• Good diet - cut down on sugar, artificial colourings, flavourings & preservatives
  
  
• Plenty of opportunities to run around & jump ( a special school was mentioned who have a mini-trampoline available for kids to use when they feel fidgety and afternoon Karate lessons where their energy can be channeled in a positive way).
  
  
• Lots of praise & positive feedback
  
  
• Having logical consequences for unacceptable behaviour with 2 warnings (e.g. if he pokes the cat in the face with his toys, he is warned that if he does it again, the toys & cat will be taken away for a set period of time. If he does it again, remind him what will happen and, on the 3rd time, do it. Maybe hurting the cat isn't a good time for 2 warnings, it was just an example ) Logical consequences tend to work better than random punishments (like, if you hurt the cat, you won't get pocket)
  
  
• Structure & Routine (it sounds like you do this anyway - sweets on Friday etc- but maybe he could have a calendar or a visual reminder so he knows that today is Friday & therefore sweetie day)
  
  I am sure he will settle down soon enough. Make sure you get some time for yourself too.
  
  Let us know what the GP says,
  
  Good Luck.

[mamama]

Sorry, that was a really long post!

It is hard to know what is normal and where to draw the line, but you are doing exactly the right thing. He certainly doesn't sound abnormal but you are his mother and know him better than anyone. If you are concerned, then seeing the GP is definitely the right thing to do.

Also, do you know how they handle the problems in school? Is he happy there? Could this be a 'settling in' problem?

[chipkid]

I don't think he sounds abnormal either Northerner-having experienced something similar with ds. I like you aften wondered whether there was some medical explanation for his oppositional and annoying behaviour. He is now 5 and is a delight (most of the time-there are still days....). Agree you should see your gp-if you are really worried.

[northerner]

Thanks guys, esp mamama - that is a very useful post.

I feel school can not handle him. Teacher has spoken to me on 3 occassions now and he only started full time in January.

Every day I ask how he has been and it is never positive.

[northerner]

Also, he has developed some sort of tick. He keeps making an annoying growling sound in his throat. It has been driving us mad at home

But today the teacher commented on it in front of him and said 'How about telling him to stop it?'

[chipkid]

my ds has lots of facial ticks-particularly when he has just returned to school after a holiday and is slightly anxious and tired!the worse thing you can do is to draw attention to it! his teacher sounds totally unsympathetic.
My ds was a nightmare when he started school for the first few weeks. He doesn't do transitions very well. One night he lost his temper in the middle of the night and completely trashed his room!
Don't underestimate how big a deal it is for him.

[singersgirl]

DS1 (now 8) was very like your son at 4.5. He wasn't in trouble at school, but he couldn't sit still or concentrate on anything not of his choosing and couldn't walk past anything without touching it. He was foul at the end of the school day (and in fact still often is). He is a very spinny/hyper sort of boy and I have thought ADHD loads of times. He had some verbal ticcy things too (like randomly adding "big fat chicken" to sentences).

Things that have helped:

• his getting older; honestly he has calmed down a lot and developed a great deal more self-awareness. He can't always control himself, but he is now aware of when he hasn't
• radically changing his diet: no colourings, flavourings, preservatives, flavour enhancers, artificial sweeteners and low natural salicylates/amines/glutamates
• lots of things like swimming, karate and general running around
• a behaviour management programme (we have let this lapse but it works when behaviour needs to be changed. We followed 1-2-3 Magic by Thomas Phelan.)

All his teachers have mentioned his attention problem but none think it is severe enough to be called ADHD. Like your son, he is bright and learns well (though does not produce output consistent with what he knows and says, IYKWIM).

Hope this helps and if you want more tips on diet etc, let me know.

[singersgirl]

By the way, DS2 (5.5) has just developed what I can only call a sniffing tic. He is much less of all the things I described in DS1 (sorry, that's bad grammar....) but has started irritatingly constantly sniffing....Their dad is a compulsive nose twitcher, so perhaps that is really a tic too.

[bobsmum]

Northerner - your post is ringing bells with me too.

Mamama - thanks for your post. Lots to think about there.

Ds is 4.4, at nursery 5 mornings and is about to see an educational psychologist for the 2nd time this week

His teachers say he is very bright, articulate and possible gifted and will have no problems with the curriculum, but some of his behaviour is a little like what you describe Northerner.

He's not violent, but he is incredibly disruptive and attentionn seeking in a group situation. He also struggles with transitions and just not getting his own way.

Interestingly I feel the nursery staff seem to be trying to fill a lot of tick boxes to arrive at a diagnosis - I can see them pushing for AS or ADD or both. But the psychologist said he was too young for a diagnosis and it was more important that everyone who cared for him should be encouraged to see if some basic strategies like timetabling and the warnings/consequences thing would work in the first instance. I liked her

He's been "filed" under 3rd stage intervention (there are 4 stages so he's way up there) which sounds so scary at 4 y o. But I have to keep reminding myself that this will help him in the long term.

I know exactly what you mean about feeling you're a crap mother. Every tantruming/Tiny Tearaway TV documentary always finds the fault with the child's upbringing. Ds doesn't have a neurological condition, it must psychological and therefore it's my fault as the primary carer.

I just hope that all this intervention at such an early stage will mean I can change whatever it is I've done wrong and do it in time.

[mamama]

Sorry, me again!

Northerner & Bobsmum

I was just thinking, sometimes the sort of attention seeking/ disruptive behaviour can be a misguided way of trying to make friends. Sometimes children need to be shown/ taught how to go about that and I think adults (including some teachers) don't always realise that - kids are usually just expected to adjust & fit into the school routine.

I strongly agree with bobsmum - this should be about finding ways to help the kids not just about labelling them (although I realise that a label can be useful in finding ways to help). I hope that the ed psych and gp in each case are able to provide some useful suggestions.

The tics worry me more than the behaviour you both mentioned- I think it sounds like your boys are stressed and need a bit of help to cope with their new situations. I'm sure they'll be fine, but I know it's really hard for you.

Keep us posted

[northerner]

Thanks mamama. The making friends thing would make sense I guess.

Now I think back my ds has been prone to ticks, he done a clicky swallowing thing, squinting of his eyes and tipping back his head constantly. Sounds divine doesn't it?

Because of his behaviour at school, she seems to have put this new tick down to another annoying thing he does. The more I think about it the more I am cross with the way she handled it.

Thanks mamama for your comments they are really helpful.

Also Bobsmum - is your ds an only child? Seem to remember he is, mine is too. Not suggessting this is anything to do with it though

[northerner]

Just bumping thsi for day time crowd.

[bobsmum]

Hi northerner I've got a dd too who's 19 months, so he would have been an only child until almost 3 and tbh that's when the problems started. Previous to dd or him turning 3 (whatever) he was poster boy angelic boy of the year. He didn't start nursery til he was 4 though so I thought a lot of his problems stemmed from not settling in quickly enough compared to the other children who'd been in childcare of some kind since embryo stage. Stupid me believed all the research that said boys were better off with their mums for as long as possible.

We have the same thing as you northerner with sandwiches at dinner time, fidgeting - his thing is kicking or drumming things constantly. If you ask him what he was doing or why he'll say "nothing" and " I don't know why I did it".

I 've also noticed he now gnaws at his fingernails, which would fit with mamama's anxiety thing. Good grief this all sounds awful when it's written down.

Northerner an ed psych might be helpful in your case too - I'm hoping ours will shed more light on Thursday. I don't know how you can speak to one though without the school doing the referring. It was Ds' nursery who brought ours in. Will keep you posted.

[northerner]

Well we had a much better day yesterday, I had a word with ds's teacher and told her not to mnetion the throat noise he is doing as yesterday at breakfast he was doing it loads. He came out of school with a shiny sat sticker because he'd made such an effort yesterday! So we did loads of praise and he was like a different child. no battles at dinner time either because he had fishfingers which are his fave.

We have started a smily face chart at home too which he seems to be enjoying.

Have made a GP appt for Monday after school. I'll keep you posted.

Bobsmum, do let me know how it goes with Ed physc. Good luck

[roseylea]

Hi,

I don't know much about ADHD in under 5s but I just wanted to say Bobsmum you are a fantastic mum!

Whatever the reasons for your ds's behavoiur please don't blame yourself or the decisions you've made re. nursery or whatever. There is so much about children and their development and brains that we just don't know, and in reality a lot of it is beyond our human control.

//[hugs]]

[mamama]

YAY! Glad you had a better day, northerner. It sounds like he really wants to be good (and children in his situation often feel like this) - I'm sure he feels great when he knows he's doing the right thing.

It's a shame he can't have fishfingers or sandwiches everyday! (Actually I do know a child who would only eat dry rice krispies & nothing else. His mum was concerned and mentioned it to the doctor who said that although it didn't contitute a balanced diet, her ds was growing well and if letting him have rice krispies meant 1 less battle, then so be it. So, they let him eat them for every meal, the battles stopped, everyone was happier and eventually he took an interest in other food...)

Anyway, I just wanted to check in and see how you were doing. Keep us posted (you too Bobsmum)

Good luck.

[northerner]

Do you know I would heave a sigh of releif if I could just feed him what he wanted, That would so half the battles and make life easier. However, dh is a chef and can not abide picky eaters. It is his worst nightmare.

[mamama]

Oh poor you, northerner - a chef & a picky eater, not a good combination! I'm sure ds will grow out of it some day...

[bobsmum]

hI northerner - had a very intersting meeting today with the Ed Psych - some of which might be very interesting for you. sOrry I seem to have hijacked your thread a bit, but I'm so reassured to see I'm not alone

Discussed loads about ds today. And I felt I really got a chance to speak out in his defence too which I didn't get to do much last time.

WE talked at length about his fidgeting and flapping. He can't sit still and constantly kicks. Apparently some children just do this because they're trying to make sense of the space around them. tHey just don't feel right unless they're feeling around them with hands feet etc. Anyway the suggestion was made that he should be referred to an OT who would specifically assess him in a sensory context (not up on all the jargon).

THey gave me the example of a boy who just wouldn't sit still who was given some special seating. Some kid of squashy/rubbery/spiky cushion which he used at group times etc and he started to manage to sit! It was described to me as if some children with sensory issues need to have a sensory "fix" and be allowed to fidget because it's not absent minded fidgeting, it's a real physical need. It made so much sense at the time, but I can see this is strange to have to put in print.

The nursery is now implementing a whole program for Robert to encourage him to integrate more with the other children in his play and some behavioural management stuff too. Th ED Psych even said she would come to our house to discuss things further with me and dh!

Our nest meeting will include the head teacher of ds' primary school so she's fully informed before he's let loose in August.

I feel so much more positive about all this. Still v concerned for ds lon term, but in the short term it's looking a bit brighter.

So good that your ds had a nice today. We switched off the TV today completely and ds was an angel (relatively).. It can't be that simple surely??

[mamama]

Regarding the fidgety thing - I know some older kids who are given something to play with, like blutak to keep their hands busy. It seems to help them concentrate.

Glad you had such a positive experience, bobsmum.

[northerner]

Bobsmum - don't apologise, it's great to hear your experiences! And mamama thanks for constantly checking in here for updates - you are kind and seem very knowledgeable

That is interesting to read Bobsmum, and alot of it makes sense to me regarding my ds. He is a never sit still child even when watching a film. He loves the ides of the cinema but is past it after 20/30 mins and we always have to leave early.

Interesting also about the blu tack thing. My dh constantly has balls of blu tack around the house as he loves to fiddle with it and has for as long as I've known him.....

Well I'm at GP on Monday, will update on here but have a feeling I may be fobbed off.

Have a good weekend guys.