Same sh*t different school

[ItIsNoneOfYourBusiness]

My DS9 started Middle School in September (they do this from Year 5 where I live). Anyway, I had concerns about behaviour at the start of year, in fact I have concerns about behaviour all the time, but for the sake of this post, we will focus on start of year. He regularly hits other children - and by regularly I mean 2 or 3 times throughout the academic year, and only once or twice at home - and it has happened again. He is currently waiting for a re-referral to a paediatrician, who wanted to see him back if his behaviour hadn't improved. The problem is, I no longer know how to deal with it. All other things have failed, and this time, I wonder if a 'school has dealt with it, I've told him off, very loudly, and he cried at my disapproval, leave it at that' approach. Previously, he has had privileges removed, been grounded, not allowed to play out etc. Trying to find his Achilles heel is hard. As my OH says, he just doesn't seem to care. But in DS's eyes, his behaviour is justified. On this occasion, the victim was calling him Sonic, which he didn't like. I re-iterated the fact that there is nothing that justifies hitting another person (obviously, life in danger yes, but that is about it!).

I need to figure this out. I cannot cope with this behaviour any more. And before you ask, no, there is absolutely no violence in this house. DS had his bum smacked once as a toddler for running into the road, and that is it! I don't hit OH, he doesn't hit me, we don't watch any violence on the telly, nothing, no reason that I can see that he would think violence was acceptable.

Please, someone, tell me what I should do! I really have no idea any more!

[zippey]

My advice is probably rubbish, but have you thought about taking him to some kind of martial arts or kickboxing/boxing classes?

My thinking is that they often teach self discipline and often have strict codes of conduct on behavior, plus some of the frustration might be released when he is practicing fighting/kicks etc.

Its just a suggestion and I don't have any experience or stats that it would work.

[Shakey1500]

So sorry you're going through this

I have no experience or advice based on experience but your Achilles heel bit jumped out at me. Please don't get me wrong and I know you must feel at the end of your tether and have tried everything. But, there will be something I think that will trigger a Perhaps some random out of the box thinking (and believe me I don't use that corporate twaddle phrase lightly!)

Apologies I've nothing constructive

[ItIsNoneOfYourBusiness]

Zippey He did do some Taekwondo (sp?) - but when that club finished, we just haven't gotten round to sorting another one out!

He is a Cub (Young Scout for those that don't know), but perhaps I need to get him back into Martial Arts.

[yetanotherchangename]

Hitting once a term doesn't sound that extreme to me. Are the school very concerned about it? Is he particularly brutal when he hits?

[ItIsNoneOfYourBusiness]

But, I might add, he does have Auditory Processing Difficulties, which means he doesn't understand language at all well. Very similar to a child on the Autistic Spectrum (something which the Paediatrician will be looking into anyway). And his violence is always, always provoked.

It is all about getting him to develop a level of self control. I did consider taking him to the Police Station - in fact I am still considering this method, as it might be the thing that scares him into taking a bit more control. Because his provocations are always 'trivial'. I put that in marks, as it isn't trivial to him because of his lack of understanding of how language is used.

In this instance, I have no way of knowing whether the boy was being mean, or he was just fooling around. Either way, DS didn't handle it at all well.

The worst bit? I actually approached the school nurse with my concerns before he moved school. But she hasn't done anything to help.

[TittingAbout]

Did you know you have written your son's name in the OP?

[ItIsNoneOfYourBusiness]

yetanother he gave this kid a black eye. It is one of many behaviours that are causing problems, but it is the hardest for me to deal with as this always involve other children. His other behaviours really only affect him. They have a system of yellow slips (they get 6) then red slips (they get 3) then on report and so on and so forth. He is on his second red slip, but first for violent behaviour. All the rest are for not following instructions, which really makes me angry as he has a recognised condition which makes it difficult for him to follow instructions - particularly in a classroom setting - unless they are written down or he is addressed directly. All the times he hasn't followed instructions, it has been a whole class address and only verbal. He still gets told off, told that he needs to try harder than most, but I am angry at the school, particularly as the school are aware.

The school do have concerns, and are in agreement that it is Autism or ADHD (or both!) but don't seem to be putting anything in place in the meantime, despite knowing he is 'in the system' so to speak.

[mummytime]

Have you tried posting in e Special needs section, for advice that will be very different from the normal stuff here.

It could be that he is processing things very differently, and for him being called "Sonic" is like someone else being called a say "fing n***"

I do not punish out of school for things that happen in school. I do talk about them. What have the school said? What does his pastoral head say? Have you talked to the SENCO? He does not need a diagnosis to be considered SEN, and to have input from them.
You and the school need to be working on understanding why he act the way he does in school, and finding ways to help him avoid those situations and to escape and calm when they do occur. But it can take quite some time.

I think you are looking for a punishment, but maybe you need to look for ways to understand and work with his behaviour instead. He may need to be taught to understand other people have feelings, and how to control his actions (even if this is just move away).

I would keep a diary and keep records of everything. The incidents, anything you know leading up to them and afterwards. His reaction to punishments, his reactions to treats, what he enjoys, what causes him to lose it, and so on. The more you record the better chance that a paediatrician will be able to understand what is really going on.

[ItIsNoneOfYourBusiness]

Titting Oh pants! Can I edit? I can't see how to edit! Oh well, there are many boys by that name.......

[Chandon]

I find with my boys, it helps to get to the bottom of things.

So I'd ask him why being called "sonic" made him angry.

Then acknowledge it is ok to feel angry, or upset, or even to feel really angry.

And that there is nothing wrong with feel very strong feelings.

But that hitting is wrong, and only gets you into trouble.

9 is still very young IMO, and needs to be treated as a little boy really

[mummytime]

To change the name report your post and MN will remove it.
I strongly suggest you post in the Special Needs Chat section. I would also start treating your son as if he has ASD, it won't do him any harm even if you don't get a diagnosis. But it might help you stay sane. Trying to teach someone with ASD by punishment is a bit like trying to teach a deaf person by shouting.
Try reading this book or lots of similar ones, maybe The Explosive child.

You may want to contact NAS, and your local (what was called parent partnership), and can still be googled by that name.

[ommmward]

I'm about to PM you

[ItIsNoneOfYourBusiness]

mummy several things have come to light. The teacher who is responsible for Emotional Welfare has highlighted he has issues with self-esteem (which I already knew, one of the many reasons we are seeking help) and that he struggles in groups.

He is on the Social Use of Language Programme (SULP) as recommended by his Speech and Language Therapist. I have invested in the Applied Behaviour Analysis programme, which is basically what he did with his therapist.

I have also talked to him at length again, and tried to help him figure out a way of dealing with it in future.

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

Yes if he has ASD or similar it would work much better to find the reason for the behaviour and deal with it than to try to punish him.

[ommmward]

Check your mumsnet inbox :)

[ItIsNoneOfYourBusiness]

I am trying to treat him as having ASD/ADHD but my knowledge of dealing with it is limited. I have borrowed a book from the library called 'Understanding ADHD and Autism' and it describes DS perfectly - it could have been written about him! - and I have a few more on my 'to read' list. I am trying to be positive and calm. Being shouty and angsty only upsets the family, and the thing DS needs to know is that he is loved. His TA says he is the perfect gentleman when she has him for intervention.

I may have made him out to be a horrible little bugger, but really, he isn't. And at school he has just achieved his Gold award for behaviour, attendance and work. 50 signatures per award isn't bad going for a boy who is also almost on report! I am slowly developing a Jekyll and Hyde persona.........

[DontPushTheButton]

Please don't take him to the police!

My son has ADHD and hfa. I am not saying your son has, at all, but the 'provoking' response rings bells. Ds hits when provoked, the problem is, what provokes him is so small to other people but so huge to him, purely, as you say, due to the different way they understand language.

We repeat repeat repeat. It does go in. Eventually! It is frustrating and demoralising and seems like you are hitting your head against a brick wall. I know! With our ds, the violence has decreased as we have given him other strategies to vent his frustration. Walk away and hit a pillow. Walk away and tell an adult. Walk away and draw etc. go into your 'cave' and play the computer for an hour to calm down if needed. The big thing here is to WALK AWAY. He is now in my position that he knows all the social rules, but they often fail to come forward at the right time!, but He has ways of dealing with the often overwhelming feelings he has. Use comic strip stories to give him strategies and deal with what he sees as stressful or confusing situations. Give him a punching bag on the landing. Draw a visual support with a picture of a person and hitting with a big cross then a picture of the punching bag and a big green tick.

These are just a few things we do, so hopefully they might give some ideas.

Leave school to deal with stuff that happens in school. Push for support and follow up the referral.

But most of all, good luck!

[TheOnlyOliviaMumsnet]

@TittingAbout

Did you know you have written your son's name in the OP?

Hallo
we've removed this for you now.
Hope the Mners can help can sort this OP.

[ItIsNoneOfYourBusiness]

He has been placed on a Nurture programme now at school.

I have heard that they are good. He slammed a door in a shop the other day because I told him we need to hurry, as we were running late. Usually, such angry outbursts are kept for school or home.

Hopefully, the Nurture programme will help him. He also has a tailored 'Listening Book' so he can look at how well he listens. To be honest, I personally think it is a load of crap. If they want to know how well he listens, they need to record what is going on at the time too i.e. the room was quiet, or the person wanting him said his name and got his attention first. These are the things that are useful. Not showing him how 'bad' he is because he is distracted!

I no longer feel awful for what he did to the kid. Yes, I'm not happy about it, but a bit more reading and I am beginning to understand how he may tick, and trying real hard to change how I am to accommodate him.