need some advice re bold behaviour and to punish

[hermykne]

dd 3 1/2
ds 22mths
i have decided to withdraw toys at night and say the "bold" fairy took them at night and only good children who dot shout, behave all day (ok a bit much to ask for!) and most importantly eat their dinner get them back the next night,

is that mean and will i harm their wee selfs by letting them think a bold fairy come s in to the house at night.

our naughty step is the utility but it aint working
3 warnings and shes in but still comes out guns blazing.

granted they are tired today 2 early mornings for the two fo them doesnt help.

[zippitippitoes]

I wouldn't do it..discipline for such small children needs to be very focussed and simple..it's illogical too because as you yourself realise they cannot"behave all day" far too non specific and unachievable. If you are set on discipline then it has to be at a level applicable to the age of the children.

[beckybrastraps]

Afraid I agree with ZTT. My dd (2.3) would be completely perplexed by the whole thing. I have to deal with events as they occur, not in arrears.

[sparklemagic]

I agree with the others here hermy. This would put you on a hiding to nothing, by which I mean this method would have ABSOLUTELY no effect on any bad behaviour - children of these ages live in the moment and simply do not have the 'pathways' developed in their brain to think "oh, better not shout, my toys might get taken away in seven hours time". Asking them to comply with this is simply asking them to do something they physically don't have the capability for. It's like asking your 22 month old to frive a car.

I think you should pursue using your utility room, but don't call it the 'naughty' step. I found it more helpful to have it as 'time out'. You use it when you are at the end of your tether or when the child is tantrumming with no ability to stop or be distracted. They have their minutes in there but won't always come out upset or willing to be cuddled...my son also always came out 'all guns blazing' BUT he was much more easy to distract after time out. I didn't expect him to say sorry - I know some do but I felt he had done the time, and as long as we went on to another activity happily, that was it sorted.

I believe your kids at these ages, should have things taken away at the time if they have been warned to stop doing whatever they shouldn't be. And if you work your socks of at distraction, distraction, and keep things jolly and light with plenty of time and attention from you, I reckon you shouldn't need anything further.

HTH?

[Piffle]

too young IMHO

[zippitippitoes]

as a general rule i would say distraction as Sparkly says is really the way to go..if something else is needed then it needs to be clear where the connection between the behaviour and the discipline is

however old they are never get in the position where you have threatened to do something which is a pain in the butt to carry out

try to anticipate where problems might arise and have a plan in mind to avert problems

give yourself a break

[cod]

whats a BOLD fairy anyway?

[cod]

also dont punish wasy afetr the event

[Twiglett]

Irish for naughty / impudent is Bold

agree with others .. will not be effective and you'll probably end up giving her nightmares about sneaky fairies

immediate discipline .. removal of toys / naughty step .. etc etc

[zippitippitoes]

i agree with cod..on both counts..not sure what bold behaviour is but i suspect that it is a bit iof a challenge to your authority,, but that is what are 3 year olds are about finding how it all works

the greatest danger with your idea is that they will learn they can't win ever and their behaviour will get worse and worse..ie they will come to believe that whatever happens they are naughty..this is the situation that ends up with intractable behaviour

[zippitippitoes]

also (she says rather obsessively for which I apologise) I suggest you decide what behaviour is the most essential to curb and concentrate on that ignoring and distracting for less important things and bear in mind that they are curious and have each other so more difficult to always be "good"

What do they do that really riles you?

[hermykne]

omg than kyou for all that, i agree with you all but you know when its one of those days and its not going right atall.

what really riles me zippi is dd's refusaal to do what i ask and i could ask nicely and use different methods or ways of askng her with distraction etc, but she wont do it and then proceds to do something "bold" and i jst get annoyed with her. she goes into the utility and says "i want to say sorry" comes out and runs away throws herself on the beanbag and refuses to say sorry _ god i'm laughing at the antics now.

sparkly do you mean i can take something away for the brief period this occurance is happening and then give it back when all is calmed down.

i would do distraction for example tonight trying to get pj's on - she asked to go upstairs and get ready for bed, we go up and then she refuses and wants to be a mermaid. i was sorting out the clean clothes and said yes if you get your jammies on and she said no and it wnet on for about 12mins til i just got her and took the clothes off and then she came round and put her jammies on herself.

thanks so much for the comments - you knowwhen your brain is addled and you really need to get back on the right track

[sparklemagic]

Hermy, yes - if a child is throwing a toy for example, first try and distract with a suggestion that they do a more appropriate thing with it eg "Don't throw barbie, let's do her hair instead" (or whatever!) then if it continues, you warn them that it will be taken away if it happens again, then take it away if they continue.As far as I'm concerned it could be kept somewhere they can't reach it until the end of the day, and then re-introduced to the toy box! or if they ask for it later, I'd give it with no negative comments...but obviously the process starts again if behaviour is bad again.

I know just what you mean about them not doing things when you ask - one thing that has worked really well with my Ds is 'reverse psychology", eg if he was refusing PJ's I'd say "Now don't you dare put these PJ's on, they are for a boy who is getting some stories when he's ready for bed" then when he makes a move to put them on, I say "No, don't put them on!" in mock horrified voice - he thinks it is hysterical! He knows it's a game, and it appeals to the rebellious nature of toddlers...or the other approach I use is to make everything part of his current game, eg if your DD was being a mermaid, you could say that these PJs are special mermaid pj's, she'll be a beautiful mermaid in them etc etc....

hope some of this helps, it certainly works with my Ds but I know all kids are different.

[hermykne]

thanks sparkly - i get the reverse pysch bit and i have done it on occasion , i really have to behave myself!, ie take a deep breath and be consistent and fresh with distraction,

thanks for that. tom is a nice day.

[sparklemagic]

yep, let's hope tomorrow is a good day for all - and don't forget we ALL get bad days, days when the kids are particularly impossible or our stores of patience are running low. It's nothing to beat yourself up over....

[stoppinattwo]

I think some days sparklemagic, you almost need to force a smile on your face.
It is so worth it tho

[riddleywalker]

There's a good kids' book called Contrary Mary where the little girl mouse always does everything her mother doesn't want her to, so the mum starts doing it too. My oldest girl (just turned 4) loved it and it helped me to her her to do things when I pretended to be 'contrary'. They seem to HATE adults not doing what they are supposed to...

[riddleywalker]

Sorry should have read 'helped me to get her to do things'... too much beer

[sparklemagic]

can I have one riddley? Could just fancy a beer

That book sounds lovely, could have been written for my DS, he's such a contrary boy....

[carolann23]

HELP!!! MY DD IS 2.5 WHEN TRYING TO DISIPLIN HER SHE DONT SEEM TO LISTEN I HAVE TRIED PUTTING HER IN HER ROOM BUT IT DOESNT WORK ANY TIPS??SHE SEEMS TO GET REAL BAD WHEN I HAVE FRIENDS ROUND AND SHES NOT GETTING MY WHOLE ATTENTION!AND TENDS TO HIT THE OTHER KIDS..WHICH IN THE END SHE GETS MORE ATTENTION THAT WAY! SO I THOUGHT I WOULD BRING IN A BEHAVIOR CHART, SHE GETS TREATS WHEN GOOD AND A WEE STAR AND NONE WHEN BAD AND A BLACK DOT,BUT SHE DONT SEEM THAT BOTHERED WITH IT!!AM I DOIN ENOUGH ??

[sparklemagic]

2.5 is too young for most children to benefit from a behaviour chart. I think all the answers on this thread could apply to your DD, have you read the whole thread?

Why do you say putting her in her room doesn't work, what makes you think that?

I found with my DS and I'm sure lots and lots of others do that having friends around often is a real challenge for toddlers and their behaviour. It is difficult for them to share you, and having other kids touch their toys is really hard! I think you just have to accept a level of behaviour that is a little more challenging tbh. Try to provide things for them to do that you know they will like, but don't just expect them to entertain themselves for long, they are just too young. You just have to get used to never finishing a sentence with your friends when you have toddlers, in my view. They will learn soon enough to amuse themselves and not interrupt you - but not quite yet!!!!!

[carolann23]

Thanks for ur advise ill read the thread to see if there is anything thatll help

the thing with sending her to her room is ill put her in but she dont understand its time out time and then she takes a tantrum n in the end she will just go back n hit that person again!so in my eyes its not working!
and i dont expept her to be good all the time good no shes is only a toddler, but all the other kids round about her dont seem to be as distuptive as she is !! and thought the wee chart might take her attention away from bad behaviour, but its not as good as i thought it would so was looking for other alternatives.Thanks

[sparklemagic]

carolann, with time out in her room just explain to her very clearly and simply that she is going in her room for two minutes because she did (whatever it was). I personally don't think it matters whether she is upset and screaming or just plays in her room for the minutes. I know some people feel that it's not working if the child isn't sobbing! But basically you just need to be consistent and keep using it when necessary, though I would say don't over use it - use it when you are at the end of your tether and feel like stangling her! It will not be effective if used twenty times a day every day.

Use distraction like mad to get her away from unsuitable things like hitting, then use confiscation of toys or whatever, and use time out as your very last resort.

HTH!