To think India is a damn hypocrite!

[QuackPorridgeBacon]

Watching big brothers bit on the side. Don’t usually but interested in this series so I’m giving it a go. I’m a bit behind and on episode three but I’m up to date on the main show. Watching an “exclusive” clip and India is saying that we shouldn’t use stereotypes for men and women. Yet she is he biggest walking stereotype for women. I swear I could wrong her booody neck. Such an entitled piece of shit.

[Trinity66]

She's also a hyprocrite for the way she behaved toward Courtney with this whole dragphobia stuff, can you imagine if any of them said they had a fear of transgenders

[QuackPorridgeBacon]

HelveticaVanBuren I technically agree but out of respect I will use the preferred pronoun, however I do slip up a bit.

She is a horrible, horrible person. I just cannot get behind someone who believes that playing with cars means you will be a man and playing with dolls will mean you will be a woman. Women have spent years trying to breakdown those stereotypes and transgendered people are bringing them back. Correction, the radical transgendered activists are damaging, not those who want to live peacefully as what they perceive to be a woman. I just wish that men can dress how they like and be brave enough to do so just like women have become brave enough to dress in trousers and have short hair for example. No need to keep the boxes and reinforce them when we are trying to get rid of them.

I wouldn’t even class myself as a feminist but during recent years I will side with my sisters. This cannot be acceptable, surely?

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Quack get there over to the feminist boards

[QuackPorridgeBacon]

Trinity66 Exactly! No one can choose to not sleep with a transgender, because you know, feelings. Even though we discriminate on many things when it comes to having sex with someone and rightly so. You can never be wrong when you discriminate about such an intimate thing. But it’s ok to say you are scared of a drag queen (whom I love and really think is a great guy) yet stay in the same damn room? I’m scared of spiders, I won’t stay in a room if they are about, I will get my ass up and leave.

[QuackPorridgeBacon]

ItsAllGoingToBeFine I’m definitely going to check it out. Will be doing a lot of reading once the little ones are tucked up in bed. That’s my complete focus for the night lol

[EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans]

I thought Courtney's description of India as a radical gender conformist (or something like that) was perfect. It also explains exactly why India struggled so much with the idea of Andrew and Courtney playing with gender. Gender is like India's religion, so that must seem almost like blasphemy.

[EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans]

This is an article about the kind of flack lesbians get for refusing to sleep with transwomen.

[Lottapianos]

'Gender is like India's religion, so that must seem almost like blasphemy.'

Yes, that's exactly it! Great comparison

I haven't been watching the show, but saw a few clips of India kicking off and stomping around and shouting about being 'misgendered' to a lot of and cynical faces. Appalling. Hopefully India's behaviour will help a lot of people to reach peak trans sooner

Quack, you sound like a feminist to me. Welcome to the dark side

[VladmirsPoutine]

Everytime one of these threads pop up I always wonder what events I've missed on the World stage for the country to find itself the aim of much derision from mumsnetters.

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

And as far as the pronoun goes, I usually type 'they' - it seems to work

[QuackPorridgeBacon]

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans Yes, That is exactly why I love Courtney. I may not agree with having so many labels but the labels don’t affect me when only used to describe the person who wants to use them. In fact, from Courtney I’ve learned that actually I don’t mind the label “pansexual” and it’s fair enough because it doesn’t relate to me therefore I don’t need to use it. Courtney explains things eloquently and with respect so that I tend to listen. I loved the way she described India and I don’t think she is buying the act to be honest. Time will tell if Courtney really speaks out and if she does I reckon she can do it in a way that hopefully people will get and not shout terf at straight away.

Lottapianos Oh god, do I lol I’m very much for women and always have been as I am one so I understand the things that many of us would have gone through together. I just don’t like the way some (again the minority has the loudest voice) feminists present themselves and the petty things they say. That’s why I tend to avoid that section of mumsnet lol but will venture there later and have a nosey.

[QuackPorridgeBacon]

CuriousaboutSamphire I shall try ‘they’ more, it feels odd in a way because of its other meaning being plural.

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

It's as close as I can get to an impersonal personal pronoun

It helps that they are a person I do not actually know and that they are far away, somewhere else, and that they don't know who I am

[Terrylene]

Well, I watched BB for the first time to see what India was like, after all the leg shaving debacle on Woman's Hour, after Jenny Murray wrote that the lives of transwomen are not the same as women, prepared to see the good in people (even Ann Widdecome).

And, bluddyhell, does India live up to every stereotype imaginable! Even the lack of empathy, body flaunting, pointing and 'penetrating' was priceless.

Ann seems to be doing ok, and I know she is Not Nice because I lived through her time in the Home Office etc.

[BatShite]

India appears to be a walking peak trans. Never before have I seen the narrative change from 'oh you are so brave hun x' to 'what a cunt' so quickly.

[Vitalogy]

can you imagine if any of them said they had a fear of transgenders Yeah that's what I thought too, meltdown time, but then again what's new!

[QuackPorridgeBacon]

I quite like Ann I may not agree with all of her views but I respect her opinion and she seems to respect others. She debates and discusses well which I really like. The conversation between her and Shaun was wonderful. While India sat there looking sour faced and making remarks. Shaun handled it well and understood that their opinions differ but the respect was there. I’ve never really followed Ann’s life or even know much about her. So I have no views other than in the house to base my opinion on. So far I love her and think she is brill. She reminds me of my grandad a bit though and that could be why lol

[AskBasil]

If India weren't so horrible as a person, whatever sex she is, I would actually be feeling quite sorry for her now.

It's very clear that she is utterly haunted by the deep down suspicion that people do not really believe that she is a woman. When one of them tried to comfort her the other day, she said "Don't patronise me" - she was completely aware that people are just pandering to her and she fears they don't mean it.. And tbf, what normal women ever have to reassure each other that we are women? What normal women ever hector other women that they are women? Anyone here ever done that?

It must be bloody horrible to fear that other people are lying to you, not being honest, not really accepting you the way they're pretending to. And of course, that's why people's protestations of faith can never be enough for India.

It shows how damaging transideolgy of "transwomen are women" is to transwomen themselves. To set someone up to believe that they can become women just the same as actual women who have been through girlhood, rather than to encourage them for who they are in reality, is so bloody cruel.

I know, India's horrible. But she is going through genuine pain and it is all the fault of every single person who has ever mindlessly chanted "transwomen are women". Transwomen like India are being set up to have a rude awakening about how most people actually feel about sex; most of those people in that house are liberal, nice, decent people, in some cases gender-non-conforming themselves. And yet, they don't really believe she is a woman like a woman who actually has XX chromosomes and has been through girlhood.

Up to now, India has been able to tell herself that people who do not wholly believe, are transphobes. But she can't do that here. Those people are bending over backwards to just try and believe she's a woman, they are reassuring her that she is one, they're desperate to believe it and they probably feel guilty for not really doing so. She can't just write them off as TERFS and transphobes like she would if she were arguing with them on social media. It must be profoundly confusing and discouraging for her.

I know she's horrible, but I do feel some compassion for her. It's just very sad that she's been brought to this. We should stop doing this to people, it is not kind to pretend. In the end, you do more harm than good. It's playing out here and it's sad.

[QueQueQue]

Great post askbasil

[polaricecaps]

Yes, very well put AskBasil.

[QuackPorridgeBacon]

AskBasil Well said and I do agree. I just think they are a horrible person and may have been just as horrible before transitioning by the looks of it .

[AskBasil]

And now the bastard's sabotaging the task

[YetAnotherSpartacus]

I know she's horrible, but I do feel some compassion for her. It's just very sad that she's been brought to this. We should stop doing this to people, it is not kind to pretend. In the end, you do more harm than good. It's playing out here and it's sad

India has used male privilege to make people drink the cool aid that they have handed to them. I don't feel sorry for them. I do think that the appropriate professionals are culpable if they have led India and others to think they are 'real' women and will be accepted as 'real' women though. I also think that the TRA solution to this will be to press the point rather than accept the reality because male privilege.