To think that schools should give pupils time to get from one lesson to the next.(29 Posts)
DD is at secondary school. Lessons finish/next one starts at the same time. Normally it isn't a problem, because most teachers appreciate that it takes them time to get to the next lesson. However on Thursday mornings, she has 2 lessons before break. First lesson on Thursday, teacher always lets them out exactly on time or a slight bit late. Next teacher is on the other side of the school and hands out detentions for being more than a minute late. Last Thursday, everyone who had classes in that order were in detention at lunch, including my DD! AIBU to think they should either give them a 2-5 minute passing period or be understanding when they don't arrive completely on time?
That's harsh. At my secondary, it was accepted that you couldn't teleport yourself from one side of the school to the other. If you (or a small group of friends) arrived noticeably later than the others then you might have to explain yourself to the teacher and possibly be punished if teacher thought you'd been messing around, there wasn't a blanket policy of X minutes late and detention.
Has your daughter tried to solve the problem herself? Ie explaining politely to both teachers her dilemma, at a suitable time (so not protesting when she arrives late or is in detention)?
It's difficult as the teacher has a set amount of stuff to get through in the lesson, and if you cut them too much slack on when they arrive, some can and do take the piss. You don't want your lesson interrupted by stragglers.
Wow - that is harsh. We have a five minute change over time for our pupils (but our campus is massive) and STILL have problems with lateness, so how your DD is meant to teleport...
Yanbu. We never had one in my day either and it was a nightmare. Crush in the corridors and you'd be late if you needed the loo.
DD tried talking to the teacher, but she and her friends were told that it's her responsibility to get out of the previous lesson on time, which is fair enough, but when she talked to the teacher who lets out late/on time she basically got told it's not her problem (the teacher's) and to walk faster and not dawdle (DD wasn't) I don't want DD to be in detention every Thursday for something she can't help so WIBU to talk to her head of year?
Thats ridiculous. You can tell if someone has been messing around as they will arrive a few minutes after the majority of the class. The second teacher shouldn't be so harsh, and if it happened again I would be asking HoY to have a word.
I think it's good that your Dd has tried to handle the situation by taking to the teachers herself.
Now that hasn't worked and a detention has been given I would speak to the school.
Can a group of pupils talk to the head of year?
I would raise hell with the school, frankly. That's just not on. And I would tell them in no uncertain terms that my DD would not be going to detention for reasons like this, as (a) she is clearly not responsible if teacher A keeps the the class late or (b) the end of class time doesn't allow students to get across the school to their next class in time. This is a school error, not a student error, and I wouldn't stand for having my DD being punished for it.
Same problem at dc old school.
They literally had to run.
Dc1 who has disabilities and bladder issues so needs toilet more often was constantly getting told off by the teacher they had after PE as they need longer to get changed.
Also if they went to the toilet they got in trouble despite toilet pass.
Used to make me angry
If she's arriving with the rest of the class, the teacher should check with the teacher why the whole class is late. But I have students who arrive 4-5 mins late when everyone else is 1-2 mins late, under the exact same system. There is no good reason for that so those students get detention.
When whole classes are let to my lessons I take it up with the teacher they've come from.
Our school is huge, over 2,500 students.
We have class, five minutes, class ten minutes, class five minutes, class lunch, class five, class five, class and home. There's a two minute late bell at the start of each class. Works well.
Back in the day our lessons changed format from half hour periods to 55 minutes, and fewer of the but no double lessons either to combat this issue. It meant that no one had any excuse for being late to class. And when you had a tech lesson in the tech block and next was Welsh in room 23 which was upstairs and at the furthest point from the tech block you needed every second to get there on time.
I would chill over this.
A staff member has to supervise these detentions and will find it every bit as boring and tedious as your DD. If a teacher is being over zealous with detentions leading to overcrowded sessions I am sure their colleagues will be having a quiet work in their ear soon.
In addition if one staff member is consistently using detentions more than usual the SMT may well investigate their disciplinary skills (or lack thereof).
Finally staff are often super strict at the start of the year in order to mark their authority. It will probably settle down soon.
Needs to speak to HOY ot senior management team. Are they allowed phones? could she somehow record/document her leaving the class and walking to next one?
Ask strict teacher for a note saying needs out class on time or will give detention?
Although it it just start of year and teachers are having a big crack down and setting the boundaries?
My DS's school has just altered their school day to give 5 minutes 'travelling time' between lessons when they are directly next to each other. It's a big site and it had been causing problems. They run a 2:2:2 lesson day, registration, 2 lessons, break, 2 lessons, lunch, registration, 2 lessons then finish. The 5 minutes extra time is between the blocks of 2. They've shaved time off lunch and registration to do this.
I would speak to the head of year. The punishment sounds very unfair and I say that as a teacher.
If it was just one child who was arriving late, then fair enough, but even then I would only issue a punishment if they were consistently late without good reason. If lots of children were a bit late, I would assume they must be coming from the other side of the school or there'd been some kind of hold up.
If the second teacher has such a problem with it then they need to speak with the first teacher and ask her to let them out exactly on the bell. Or just lower their expectations a bit!
Some teachers do seem to forget that the children have other classes to get to, though. I remember one of my S2 classes a couple of years ago were always late to my lesson. It turned out that the teacher they had before was lining them up at the door, on the bell, and not allowing them to leave until they'd answered a question about the lesson. The result was that the children were late to my lesson and some them were getting very anxious about it.
Definitely speak to someone. She can't have this every week!
We have this exact same problem in the school where I teach. The site is massive and the end of one lesson is the start of the next, yet it can take a good 10 mins to get from one end of school to another when you've got over 1000 pupils walking around.
For this reason I only ever give out sanctions for excessive lateness - if someone slopes in a lot later than everyone else with no good reason. You can tell those who have made an effort to get there ASAP and those who have taken their time. The teacher of the OP's DD is being unreasonable imo, how can it be the child's responsibility to get out of lesson on time if the previous teacher is keeping the class behind? Should the DD just walk out then?
For me, if it's a once off, I let it go with a reminder about punctuality. If a teacher is frequently keeping a class behind, making the students late to my lesson, I speak to the teacher, not punish the kids. Funnily enough, I don't really have a problem with excessive lateness from my students - they try their best to get to my lesson as quickly as they can as we have a good relationship because I don't get into conflict with them about things that are out of their control. Some teachers give the rest of us a bad name! I don't often advocate parents kicking off with school but in this case, I'd be ringing in and asking exactly how they expect the students to be in two places at once! I wish my senior leadership team would listen for the many calls they have had from staff to change the timing of the day. 5 mins traveling time between lessons would stop this kind of conflict!
Can any of them use a phone to record/time how long it takes to reasonably walk from the first class to the second class? If it cannot be reasonably completed within a minute, that's the first problem because whether she is let out on time or not, she physically cannot get there unless she develops superpowers! Not to mention that at class change time there will be lots of other kids around which will make it even slower.
It seems unreasonable of the teachers to adopt this attitude. I can appreciate obviously late pupils being put in detention but where they have to a) get from one side of the school to the other and b) may need a quick toilet break, those are not unreasonable and it seems excessive and disproportionate to put the kids in detention over that.
Yeah I never understood how both the following statements are true according to teachers:
1. Why are you so late? The bell rang5 minutes ago.
2. Dot packup before I say so. That bell is for me not you.
Wonder if there's a bit of staffroom politics going on here.
Alfa: Toilet breaks are built into the school day - break and lunch. It would be chaos if lessons were delayed so everyone could queue ro use the loo
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