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To wonder why no one seems to talk about EU pension entitlement in the Brexit debate?

(19 Posts)
IonaNE Fri 03-Jun-16 20:42:37

So. In most countries you need a minimum number of years to get a state pension. In the UK it is 10 years. To get a full state pension you need 30 years, but if you worked for fewer than 10, you don't get anything. Various EU countries have different minimum periods: it is 15 years in France and Spain, 5 years in Germany.

In the EU your entitlement is added up. As long as Britain is in the EU, if, e.g. I worked 8 years in the UK and 7 years in France, I will have worked 15 years and will thus have become entitled to a state pension in both countries and will receive a state pension from both countries (apportioned).

If Britain leaves the EU, I will not get anything from either country, because the years are no longer added up and I am below the minimum period in both countries. So although I worked for 15 years, I won't get anything.

Sure, in the case of Brexit somewhere down the line there may be an agreement between the UK and other countries. There may be. But something tells me that with all the trade agreements that will need to be negotiated, this one will be rather at the bottom of the priority list.

Since there are a considerable number of British expats working in other EU countries, AIBU to think that this issue should get more publicity in the race to win people's votes?

evilcherub Fri 03-Jun-16 20:45:32

I don't think anyone will get a pension in a few years time. They are pushing the pension age further and further back and trying to make it harder and harder to get. It is pretty obvious that the pension won't exist (at least as we know it) in the next few decades.

GassyS Fri 03-Jun-16 20:49:12

YANBU. I like to think I was pretty clued up on the IN/OUT campaigns but evidently not as I wasn't aware of the above! Although it wouldn't affect me I've found that it's had to get the facts in 'layman' terms and instead seems to be a lot of scare mongering. Unfortunately, I don't think pensions are high on people's agendas even though they should be...

ThePinkOcelot Fri 03-Jun-16 20:50:16

There's not a lot mentioned about how we (working people) will all receive an identity card and be taxed directly from the EU either is there?!!

IonaNE Fri 03-Jun-16 22:08:38

evilcherub, I have about 20 years till retirement and I do count on getting a pension!
PinkOcelot, I see no issue with ID cards (I have one from another country, dual citizen), they are useful, though I can't envisage the logistics of rolling it out in the UK, what with an estimated 1 million illegals living just in London, about whom no one knows anything. And I think we are already being taxed from the EU by way of all the money we (the UK) give Brussels...

Patapouf Fri 03-Jun-16 22:18:39

You've just reminded me I need to write to the French SS because I paid an awful lot in cotisations and it hasn't been attributed to my NI. <sigh> not that it will matter if we leave obviously sob
I didn't really need convincing and TBH the typical Out voter probably hasn't spent a great deal of time outside of the U.K., especially not enjoying exercising their treaty rights in other EU countries <runs away>

IonaNE Fri 03-Jun-16 22:36:50

typical Out voter probably hasn't spent a great deal of time outside of the U.K., especially not enjoying exercising their treaty rights in other EU countries
This ^

Patapouf, as far as I am aware, the only thing you need to do is claim state pension when you've reached the age (currently 60 in France). All the compounding, attributing, calculating and the rest will be done automatically between countries then. Well, provided the UK stays in the EU...

GassyS, I, too, only became aware of this issue a few weeks ago - and before I thought I was going to vote "out" because I am leaning towards the opinion that for the UK it would be better. Then it turned out that it would not for me, and sadly, turkeys can't vote for Xmas...

GrumpyMcGrumpyFace Fri 03-Jun-16 22:42:33

I hadn't realised this. I worked for 10 years on the continent and was thinking that I would have a nice little pension that I could use for holidays but I guess not! I've all ways been for staying in, this gives me more reason to vote to stay.

Patapouf Fri 03-Jun-16 23:49:47

I don't think anyone who has enjoyed freedom of movement in the real sense could begrudge either other EU citizens the same right, or future generations in the UK. I have no intention of living out my days here and would quite like to not have the right to live elsewhere taken away from me.

I know, but as far as France is concerned I haven't contributed a centime, there was a big fuck up with my CV and my social security number was never given to my employer. I'll wait until the referendum before I bother trying to sort it wink

BeALert Sat 04-Jun-16 01:48:46

I live in the US, and the years I've paid into my UK pension count when calculating my US pension. Quickly looking it up, I see the UK has similar social security agreements with Barbados, Bermuda, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Canada, Chile, Croatia, Guernsey, Israel, Jamaica, Japan, Jersey, the former Yugoslav republic of Macedonia, Mauritius, Montenegro, New Zealand, Philippines, Republic of Korea, Serbia, Turkey and the USA.

Creampastry Sat 04-Jun-16 08:45:37

Any state pensions in future will be very little.

scaryteacher Sat 04-Jun-16 18:42:18

Patapouf, we have lived in Belgium for a decade now and will be voting out.

Jelliedeels Sat 04-Jun-16 18:55:59

Although I find this to be a fair comment I do not believe that pensions will be around unless private pensions, in 20 years time.

However I feel that leaving the EU there will be other benefits to the country , so I'm still voting out

SoddingPufflers Sat 04-Jun-16 19:03:20

I have worked 20 years in the uk and 10 in another EU country. The reciprocal pension agreement is my biggest worry, should there be a leave vote.

user1464519881 Sat 04-Jun-16 19:06:26

Most people have only worked in the UK so they are not bothered about this issue (and it's 35 years for the UK pension under the new rules) although I will have had 46 years+ full time without a break before I get my state pension!

scatterolight Sat 04-Jun-16 20:06:32

OP as BeAlert has pointed out there are reciprocal arrangements in places with many non EU countries. It is a vanishingly small chance that similar arrangements would not be made in the event of a Brexit. After all what about all the EU citizens working here who could be equally punished if the UK withdrew their pension entitlement? Remember in all these arguments that however another country chooses to punish us for Brexit we can do the same back to them. Because of this I strongly believe relations will be friendly post Brexit.

If you otherwise feel strongly about voting Leave then I really would not let your fears about this get in the way.

IonaNE Sun 05-Jun-16 21:27:11

BeAlert and scatterolight - I know that other countries have reciprocal agreements re. pension. I also don't doubt that in the case of a Brexit these can be negotiated at one point. But, as I said in my op, considering the number and weight of trade, defence and other agreements that will need to be negotiated, I fear that the reciprocal pension agreement will be at the very bottom of a very big pile. Then, when they'll get round to it the respective 2 or more countries will have difficulties matching individual records, the agreement will only be "going forward", etc., etc., as is usual with burocracy. I don't fancy experimenting with this, if possible.

user146, it is possible that "most people" have only worked in the UK, but as far as I am aware, plenty of Brits work abroad (who runs the fish & chips shops in Benidorm? The Spanish?). There are also a significant number of people from Eastern Europe who came to the UK in 2004 and have since gained British citizenship, so they are allowed to vote. I have a close family member who worked in the UK about 3-4 years. Not a British citizen, so can't vote - but I am voting for her, too.

allegretto Sun 05-Jun-16 21:33:10

I have worked in the uk and now work in Italy - I also can't vote. I expect a lot of people worried about pensions are living abroad and have been disenfranchised.

BombadierFritz Sun 05-Jun-16 21:42:43

Interesting about pensions but just not relevant to 99% of voters I suppose.

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