Is this an Autism symptom?

[reformer29]

Hi everyone,

I'm new here. Someone said I should post here as I will get more replies. But...

I have DS who is 4 and a half.

I suspect DS has autism, but the thing is, he has been assessed for autism 3 times and it all comes back that no he doesn't have it. He does have a diagnosis of speech and language disorder and dyspraxia.

DS does this thing that makes me wonder if he actually does have autism. Ok, when we are out and about, if someone is walking behind DS (which DS cannot see), DS does not move out of the way, he doesn't do this on purpose though, so I always have to move DS out of the way so that people can get pass.

But he does move out of the way if someone is in front of them (as he can see them of course).

Is this due to autism?

Also, concerning dyspraxia, I am very new to this diagnosis as DS just received this. His Dyspraxia ain't severe, but looking at a closer inspection of his walking, it's like his walking on air, his overall balance is off, I was wondering if this too was common with children in Dyspraxia and if any of you parents have suggestions on how I could help DS.

[mommy2ash]

My dd is eight and I'm always telling her move out of people's way and she doesn't have autism. I'm not sure I move out of people's way that are behind me how am I to anticipate I'm on their way if I can't see them?

[CultureSucksDownWords]

I doubt it. It's due to him being 4 - I'm not sure how many 4 yr olds would be that aware of their surroundings to be able to do this. There are many non autistic adults who still don't do that.

[NeedsAsockamnesty]

I know a few people with dyspraxia who do this and it's very much part of their dyspraxia.

An explanation one gave me was they concentrate so much on managing moving foward with out causing issues that they tune out anything they cannot see

[lucjam]

Have you had his hearing checked?

[Fatmomma99]

You sound like you're very worried, reformer29, so take a deep breath.

Sorry if it is different where you are, but I work in primary schools where the route to any diagnosis is through PCAMHS.

Where I live, PCAMHS won't touch you unless it is VERY severe and obvious until the child is 7 (because they go through so many changes until then), but when they DO pick you up, they do "hear" your historic record.

From what my parents tell me, when they go to their GP, the doctor suggests it's a parenting issue (MANY parents I work with who have diagnosed children still live with that stigma of suggesting their parenting was to blame. To be fair to the NHS, there are MANY parents who present saying their children are off the wall, and it's because they don't parent appropriately. But I know so many parents of SEN children do live with the stigma that they have somehow let their children down with their parenting, which is totally crap and horrid for them, and makes them doubt their parenting skills).

Keep in touch with the SENCO at your child's school, and listen to what the teacher tells you.

Good luck! x

[Hamiltoes]

I'd think you'd be extremely hard pressed to meet a four year old who'd move out of the way for something behind them which they couldn't see.

Unless it was an ambulance maybe? I'm moving my 4yo out of peoples way who are in front of them, we're slowly working on that though

[Aeroflotgirl]

That on its own, no, if there are other concerning symptoms that make up the triad of Autistic behaviour than yes mabey. As others have said, he is still little, and might be to do with his dyspraxia.

[coveredinsnot]

Not moving out of the way has nothing to do with autism or any other condition except being a young child, or possibly hearing difficulties. It's really nothing to worry about.

What assessments for autism has he had?

[reformer29]

Thanks for the replies everyone, even though I'm suppose to have post here.

I was very OTT researching about Autism when DS was very young as his speech was and still is very severe. I thought it had something to do with communication, sensing that someone is maybe behind you...oh I don't know

My DS language disorder is very severe, alongside that and the dyspraxia, so as he is getting older it is becoming more obvious, to the point I'm spotting new things constantly. I'm just so worried about DS future, strangers look at him weird as his speech sounds of a toddler, I know I should take one step at a time but I wish I had that crystal ball so I can see how he develops...
I do over worry .

[jeronimoh]

Are you sure that he's actually been 'assessed' 3 times for autism? At age 4.5 that does seem unusual.

Do you think that he is aware that there is someone behind him when he doesn't move out of the way? Can you explain a bit more. I'm imagining you asking him to move to allow the person behind to get past, but him not wanting to - is that right?

[reformer29]

For Autism, Just the ADOS assessment. Nope he doesn't have any hearing difficulties, but it sometimes as if his in his own world.

[TheFormidableMrsC]

My ASD 4 yo is very very aware of people behind him to the point that he thinks they are chasing him and he has fits of paranoia out of the blue "people mummy, there are people behind me". It doesn't happen all the time but it always shocks me when it does. He runs away, rather than moves out of the way. I am also wondering about the assessments for autism. That is a very long and drawn out process, it took 18 months of assessments before my DS got his diagnosis...just before he was four years old, a very on the ball HV had him referred at 2 1/2. I can't imagine you've had to go through that three or four times and wonder if he has actually been assessed at all or if there has been some sort of misunderstanding?

I can only relay my own experiences but it may be worth having a "fact gathering" meeting with your special needs HV to clarify exactly what assessments your DS has undergone and whether he requires further intervention. Good luck OP.

[reformer29]

Yes jeronmioh, Well technically twice. Some parents around my borough have had an autism diagnosis at age two. He was first seen by a developmental paediatrician when he was 2, she assessed his developmental stuff and thought he didn't have it, but referred me anyway to see the experts to assess for autism. He just turned three when he had his first ADOS assessment, they concluded that he didn't have autism but were very concerned of his severe language disorder type delay, so they wanted to keep an eye on him and assess him if any thing new comes up.

I then started to notice emerging behaviours from DS that were suggestive that he was on the autistic spectrum. My GP wrote a letter on my behalf, which the assessment team must of taken seriously as DS was back on the waiting list to be assessed for autism again. Finally this January, they assessed his again, the psychologist said that he doesn't fit the criteria for an ASD diagnosis, but the specialist speech and language therapist then gave a diagnosis of language disorder and they both noticed some dyspraxia- like symptoms.

[reformer29]

Theformidable Many parents have said it has taken them ages to get a diagnosis. But I've never experience that, It takes 6 months for a child to be assessed in one of the diagnosis centres, maybe even earlier. Though DS was in the system quite early as he was already known to speech and language services.

[OutragedFromLeeds]

I think not getting out of people's way is due to being 4.

My eldest is 10yo and still does this sometimes. Children are just very self-involved. They're walking along thinking their own thoughts and just don't have the capacity to think about how what they're doing impacts other people.

If my 9yo is walking along and notices his shoe lace is undone, he stops right where he is to do it up. No regard whatsoever for people behind him or trying to get passed or anything. No SN, just being a child.

[sleeponeday]

I appreciate it's very alarming, but tbh toddlers are weird. They just are. It's part of the territory.

My FIL is Aspergers. My brother, too. But I only started to be sure DS was when he began school, and all the other kids started to conform, and their social antennae began to pick up that he was just very different to them, and he didn't pick up on their unease or attempts to disengage with them, because they were indicating them in normal, indirect ways. Obviously there were traits there before, but all of us have traits. Autism isn't a personality type/disability from Mars, after all. It's part of the human condition. And all that separates out an autistic person from a non-autistic person is degree and extent and range of traits that differ from the norm, and ability to pick up on the non-verbal, indirect social cues that regulate mainstream social interactions.

The thing is, a diagnosis only helps in unlocking support, and the autism parenting courses etc. In terms of your child being autistic or not, all the label does is allow the intervention to begin. If he is already flagged up as having issues that need addressing, and support, and the local teaching advisory service's interaction and communication team are involved, the label isn't important, the help and intervention is. Are they offering it?

I cut the crap with DS, having witnessed what my mother went through trying to get my brother diagnosed, and went for a private referral to Daphne Keen (people say her secretary is hard to pin down; all I can say is if you are desperate and talk to her about that, and why, she is enormously compassionate and supportive, and got me a cancellation very quickly). She is an NHS consultant though, primarily, and under Right To Choose you can ask for your GP to refer your DS to her in St George's in Tooting on the NHS, though the waiting list is likely to be long. But she will be able to give you an answer as definitive as it gets - she is extraordinarily perceptive and wrote a report on my DS that his class teacher thought was uncanny. Her reputation, in the NHS and more generally, is really a deserved one.

[sleeponeday]

My eldest is 10yo and still does this sometimes. Children are just very self-involved. They're walking along thinking their own thoughts and just don't have the capacity to think about how what they're doing impacts other people.


Yep. And let's be honest, I very much doubt those people who stop at the top of escalators and gaze around thoughtfully, oblivious to those behind them with nowhere to go, are all autistic, either. Plenty of adults have no concept whatsoever of other people. Toddlers almost always lack it.

[Heyho111]

Dyspraxia doesn't just effect movement but can effect speech too. (Verbal dyspraxia). Not moving out the way is linked to his age and his dyspraxia. Everyone shows some quirks or traits that you can make in your head fit asd. The assessments for asd are thorough so please take heart that he hasn't got it.

[coveredinsnot]

There are lots of other potential diagnoses other than asd. I wonder why you're fixated on this particular one? Developmental disorders are complex and some are not well known to the general public. It sounds like he's been assessed thoroughly so far, given his age, and you've got diagnoses and I'm assuming some kind of intervention or therapy or support for him?

[gingerbreadmam]

my db was diagnosed with dyspraxia, sadly this was when he was in his late teens / early twenties at which point the gp said he was too old for any help / treatment to have an affect.

he certainly has a 'walk' in fact i can spot him a mile off based on his walk alone. A bit like what you say, like walking on air. kind of has a bounce in his step. his arms also hang limp by his side. it is very noticeable. strangely his toddler daughter seems to be displaying very similar symptoms, i find it awkward watching her run around as her co-ordination is terrible and she constantly looks like she is going to fall over.

[Hedgehogsdontbite]

In my experience what you are describing is the opposite of autistic behaviour. All the autistic people I know, me included, are hyper aware of people behind us and take immediate steps to not be in that position.

[Shannaratiger]

Sorry no time to read whole thread but me and DD have dyspraxia, DD also has ASD. Dyspraxia is on the Autism spectrum so has many symptoms in common.
Dyspraxia have limited width perception meaning we walk into things fall over things all the time and have less concept of how much room we need let alone other people.
At 4 alot of things he does will apply to alot of his peers. As he gets older they will learn and change and your Ds won't. On FB there are some lovely dyspraxia groups which offer loads of support and good advice.
Hope some of this helped.

[youarekiddingme]

There is a lot of crossover in symptoms of asd, SLI, dyspraxia, SPD and ADHD. The diagnosis given is done on which of the criteria they meet.

So a child with language disorder and dyspraxia will tick boxes in other neuro developmental disabilities but may not meet the criteria for those.

My advice would be to look at what he needs and work towards meeting his needs.

I agree with hedgehogs my DS who has (HFA) is hyper aware of everything and one around him. He doesn't have a language delay - he has very good functional language for his age. But he has a language disorder because he can't use it functionally. He also has a dyspraxia symptomology (eg ticks lots of the boxes) but his actual diagnosis is autism as that's the criteria he meets the most. he also did the ADOS.

Why don't you pop over to the SN boards and chat to us there? You can post a list of concerns and those of us further down the line in this journey could suggest strategies etc for you to try.