To think it's unfair that students on NHS degrees get help with uni fee's

[serin]

When students on teaching and social work courses (equally needed and valued public service employees) don't.

It just doesn't seem to make any sense to me.

[JoanHickson]

Can you link to the help they get?

[Welshmaenad]

I'm a social work student and I get a non repayable bursary on top of my student finance.

[Alambil]

social work gets bursary support too - not sure about teaching, but they used to get a "golden handshake" at some point, IIRC

[serin]

//www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/explore-by-career/allied-health-professions/financial-support-for-ahp-students

[CameliousHumph]

Problem is, if all prospective nurse/midwife students had to pay 9k a year fees there would be less of them doing it. And then the NHS would implode sooner and people would die in their thousands. Messy.

Also it makes up for the shite NHS working conditions.

[avocadotoast]

Some social work and teaching degrees do attract funding though

Teaching it's only for certain subjects, but then not all NHS degrees are covered either, so there is a balance there.

[Clobbered]

I think teaching depends on which subject you are training for. There are financial incentives for shortage subjects.
With the current state of the NHS, I'm not surprised they need to incentivise the future work force. It's a bloody awful environment to work in.

[hatgirl]

www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/Students/825.aspx - social work bursaries (although not as good as it used to be)

www.education.gov.uk/get-into-teaching/funding/undergraduate-funding - teaching bursaries

[Welshmaenad]

It's also defective of the fact that we spend a LOT of our courses working full time on placement, with all the associated expenses, but no pay.

[TheFairyCaravan]

Here Joan.

Nurses used to get paid when they trained "on the job". When I trained I did Project 2000 which was the start of more classroom based training, we got £360 a month.

Now the NHS give you a means tested bursary. It isn't a great amount. TBH we need as many nurses, doctors and dentists that we can get. DS2 is applying to do adult nursing in September, he isn't getting that much more than when DS1 was going to do History. OK, he doesn't have tution fees to pay.

I think YABU. DS2 will get 7 weeks holiday per year, he will do a lot of shift work when he is at uni,including nights, and still have to do his written work and lectures.

[Welshmaenad]

Reflective.

[NiceCupOfTeaAndALittleSitDown]

I think it is absolutely right that they should, we need to encourage our failing NHS and if this encourages people then that can only be a good thing. However I do agree that teachers and social workers should too. I don't think the golden handshake exists except for English and Maths teachers now, shame.

[Welshmaenad]

Hatgirl, SW bursaries are a lot better in Wales, thankfully.

[holidaysarenice]

They also get only half the student loan available to other students with the same family income?!

Is that fair?

I know because I was one of those students!!

[CameliousHumph]

Student nurses only get a means tested bursary if they do a diploma. If they do a degree they can get a student loan which then has to be paid back like any other student loan.

[avocadotoast]

Nice, there's some info here on teaching funding etc; it very much depends on the subject you're looking to teach (they're crying out for science): www.education.gov.uk/get-into-teaching/funding/postgraduate-funding

I know a fair few people who are teachers or who work for the NHS, and they all work bloody hard. Nurses and other medical staff don't get nearly enough credit. I think anyone who wants to do that kind of job definitely deserves the funding.

[NomDePlumeRidesAgain]

And nursing students have to do 50% of their degree in practice, unpaid on a 24/7, 365 shift pattern (same for MW) and will end up in a low paid, high stress, high responsibility job. Subsidised course fees for some NHS courses are needed to attract applicants.

P.S. The 'free' fees are not the case for all NHS courses. Paramedic Science students aren't eligible and I don't think a lot of the allied HCP's are either.

[Medoc]

golden handshake is for many subjects- physics, chem, bio, geography I think.
Depends where you do your teacher training though.

[serin]

A bursary is not the same as having your tuition fee's paid though. It is just help towards living costs??

Cameliuos Teachers and social workers have pretty shite conditions to work in as well sometimes.

[NomDePlumeRidesAgain]

Camelious, diplomas have been binned now, it's all degree courses for nursing.

[Avonmore]

I think that the bursary (or lack thereof) is less off putting to prospective students than the appalling conditions in which people in these public services now have to work.
As a teacher married to an a & e nurse we see daily how the introduction of the practices of private industry have turned our pupils or patients into facts and figures and how we our management encourage us to become statisticians instead of caring professionals.
Combined with pay freezes, pension cuts and a media which readily blames the nhs, social services and education for every ill in society today, I am amazed that anyone still considers training in these professions with or without a bursary.

[NomDePlumeRidesAgain]

It is terrifying, tbh, Avonmore. Scary as hell to think that we are going through all this stress and shit trying to balance study with adult life and worrying whether there will be anything left at the end of our training once the politicians have finished carving up public services for parts. It scares me shitless.

[MissDuke]

It probably is unfair. However I am currently doing an NHS degree, and receive a small bursary. My friend is currently doing a teaching degree. I will have no student debt as where I live, I am not entitled to apply for any student loan. My friend gets a large loan, in addition to various grants and help with childcare. She is getting a lot more month to me than me, but will finish with a fair bit of debt. She reckons she won't really notice as it will just come out of her wage direct if that makes sense? I am finding it really hard to make ends meet, I am doing horrendous shifts while she does lovely hours, I have constant reading up and essays on placement, whereas she gets time on placement to do the necessary paperwork. She has a lot more free time than I have. I guess its all swings and roundabouts. I am not in England so its all different here, and no ofsted means teachers are much better off here according to teacher friends. Oh I almost forgot, she gets months off each year, I get 7 weeks off.

[Greenrememberedhills]

What do you think Serin? Do you think they should both get it, or neither?

[Avonmore]

Yes it's an poor situation all round NomdePlume. I literally shudder to think what state the system will be in in 20 years time. Both DH and I come home exhausted at the end of each working day and see more and more people suffering from genuine stress, depression and anxiety due to work. I would not encourage anyone now to join the profession I used to love, where making a difference mattered whether it was helping a child achieve in exams, help them feel safe or know they had someone who was on their side and would listen to them and help them through the difficulties they experience in life. Only one of those is measurable so the rest don't count. I fear for society