To wonder how much responsibility (if any) teenagers should take(21 Posts)
If they find themselves in sexual situations with older men?
All this JS business has got me thinking about some of the stuff I did as a teenager. To start, I'd like to make it clear that I'm talking about 15 and 16 year olds.
I (willingly) got myself into a few situations with older men in my teenage days. One particular incident I'd been to watch a band and afterwards went to a club with friends where we bumped into the band we'd been to see. I went back to the guitarists hotel room (naively expecting mini bar treats). When we got there he dropped his pants and I gave him a drunken blow job. I didn't particularly want to, but at no point did I say no.
The quotes in the media from JS and John Peel about young girls throwing themselves at them made me wonder how much responsibility(if any) should these girls take (and again I'm not talking about younger girls, or girls who said no). Is the guitarist I mentioned guilty of child abuse? He never asked my age and we met in a nightclub, so would've assumed I was over 18.
The law of consent exists because underage teens lack the expereince and maturity of knowing what is best for them. What is best is not always what they think they want.
It would depend on the maturity of the teenager.
But I notice you were drunk? Alcohol often has a part to play in these situations. Had you been sober, and more inhibited, you would probably have walked out. Alcohol impairs judgement.
Robyn- I agree, had I been sober I wouldn't have put myself in that situation.
I was definitely naive and lacking in maturity. It was one if those situations where things were bowling along merrily then 'oh shit', I suddenly found myself out of my depth in an adult situation I had willingly created. But where does that put the other party? Was he guilty of child abuse?
As far as the law is concerned, if you were under 16 then yes he was. He was responsible for ensuring you were old enough.
If fact, as I understand things, though I may be wrong, failing to ensure he had your full consent could still have left him open to accusation of sexual assault regardless of your age.
My parents would never have allowed me such freedom at that age- they would want to know where I was, wanted me to be trustworthy and I wanted their trust and respect.
Teenagers need a lot of nurturing and care, teenage girls require love and attention and reassurance that their self worth is not measured by male attention. It sounds like an easy target to blame- but I blame the parents for not knowing where their children were and what they were doing. OBVIOUSLY the adults abusing them have to take responsibility and blame- but also parents.
How old were you?
Between 16 and 18 is a peculiar age in the eyes of the law, you are neither one thing nor the other.
Interesting that you are only thinking of teenage females.
I expect both of mine to take responsibility for their actions and to make wise choices about what they do. However, I wouldn't blame them if they got into a situation because they hadn't. Being a teenager is full of different opportunities for disaster and they will make mistakes. If possible, they learn from those mistakes.
if they were taken advantage of by an older person, that is the adult's fault and responsibility, at 15 or 16 you are still quite naive in many respects.
I was 2 months short of my 16th birthday.
Interesting point about parental responsibility. On the night I described my mum thought I was staying over at a friends house (and had checked with her parents). He parents were quite relaxed and let her go to clubs as long as she was back by midnight.
This was quite common in my mc, 'respectable' girls school. At 14 I'd say there were about 7 in my class of 30 who were allowed to go to clubs. At 16 it was more like 20 out of 30.
"He was responsible for ensuring you were old enough."
Out of speculation, if he had asked, do you think some teenage girls would have lied, and said they were 18? Maybe in order to 'save face'/avoid embarrassment, or fear of the situation getting out of hand in some other way?
The OP doesn't say how old she was, but I assume from context she was about 15.
Teen age (especially 15-18) is the transition between child and adult; we all know teenagers (generally) try to grow up as fast as possible and want to experience the adult world, but usually miss the point due to a lack of understanding and a lack of experience (which becomes a vicious cycle). Making mistakes is a valuable learning method, I think the parents need to provide enough education and knowledge to their children so they avoid the really bad situations.
What if my drunken teenage son had unprotected sex with an older woman and she became pregnant? Should he take responsibility?
Back in the day, I knew a 12yo who was very sexually aware, more so than I was at 16. She was out and about in clubs at that age, passing for 18/19. And she was doing things 18/19's were doing.
Short of having everyone micro chipped or barcoded, I don't see how you will stop the problem of fake IDs etc. Teenagers push boundaries. You can have an age limit of X - you can have an age limit of 25 as a lot of pubs round here have, but that won't stop a 21yo going in.
At 15 you might think you are grown up, and some will be very aware and mature, but others will still be quite childlike. Things don't suddenly change when you have birthday either.
Do you feel that you were abused? Or have you processed it and think it's one of those things that are unfortunately experienced on a learning curve to adulthood?
What you wrote in your OP, no matter the age of the girl/woman I would say the person used his fame to his advantage - on the other hand I can also see the person would have had girls/women wanting that 15 minutes of related fame and been very compliant. Famous people have groupies who will do anything to get close to the band/celebrity/footballer.
If he was 19 then yes, if he was 15 then she does.
Also the emotional maturity of the teen and adult are important here- are they being manipulated deliberately, have they been targeted because of their immaturity and naivety?
I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that if a 15 year old is pushed into a sex act she doesn't really want she's not responsible, but if a 20 year old is pushed into the same sex act she is? In my book it doesn't matter what age you are, no man should treat you like a fucktoy.
Also, any person has the right to go anywhere they want without being forced into sex. You went with that guy to his room, fair enough, but at no point did that mean you had to give him a blowjob. He's not stupid, he would have been able to see you were young and not too keen but he knew you could be easily manipulated because of that and he thought "bingo!" and got what he wanted. You were in no way responsible for that. Not at all.
Sorry! Was replying to post above from woffling!
I agree with Cailin, you were manipulated, he knew what he was doing and probably did it a lot.
With regard to parental responsibility a lot of those girls in the JS case were from children's homes and the like, completely vulnerable and with little or no parental involvement - which is exactly why they were chosen. Despicable.
I don't feel I was abused, but agree he took advantage of a drunk young woman (but when does that become abuse?). It certainly was a valuable lesson and made me much less naive in future dealings with men!
I've been reading that other thread about most women having been sexually assaulted at some point, and it's amazing how many of these low level 'grey area' situations there are (and equally, how many horrific and not so 'grey area' incidents). It's really made me think about how I'll teach my sons about appropriate behaviour and responsible sexual relations. After all, these men could be our brothers, husbands, friends, colleagues.
It also strikes me how different the message I will be giving my sons from that the media gives out , but that my friends is another thread entirely.....
I would consider what that guy did to you to be abusive Better, not that I think you should feel abused IYSWIM. You don't have to say "no" for the situation to be abusive - he should have at least checked you were ok with it, or paid some attention to your demeanour. It would have been obvious to him that you weren't enjoying what was happening, and I'm guessing that if you had said no he could have turned nasty - what do you think?
Possibly Cailin. It was quite a long time ago and I don't really remember enough to say if it would've turned nasty. I don't think so, but who knows?
The fact that I can still remember most of it after all these years (when I've forgotten the details of other more 'equal' sexual exchanges) is significant. I think you're right about it being an abusive situation, it's never sat right with me iyswim. I still get a sicky feeling when I think of it (same if I see him on TV).
What worries me is that many women feel exactly the same as you about similar situations Better. It isn't too much to expect that a man will treat you with respect and kindness. Dropping your pants and expecting a young girl who is clearly not keen to give you a blowjob is horrible behaviour, and in no way reflects on the girl who had the terrible bad luck to end up in that situation. Under the law it probably wouldn't be considered assault or rape (depending of course on laws around age, which I'm not entirely clear on TBH), but in real terms that man treated you appallingly and in a highly abusive manner.
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