To Be P***** Off at yet another expensive school trip(853 Posts)
Hi, my ds has is now starting yr 9 & dd yr 8, in yr 7 a school trip was offered but cost was in the £300s (i forget exactly how much) being so expensive i couldn't afford it and it left both kids gutted when well over half of the kids in their yr got to go. ive just recieved another school trip email (not sure which yr not that it matters) offering a ski holiday trip, abroad for 6 nights for £680. which would be fantastic if i where loaded!! Why cant schools offer school trips that are affordable to all like they're supposed to instead of making those whos parents cant afford it feel left out!!!
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Yep Jenai, I agree with you some can afford it easily, and a lot of others can make sacrifices to scrape together the money, I agree with that.
But some really can't, however much they might want to. They're the ones this thread is about. The children in that category.
'you' should have said 'you all' meaning the many who have made exactly the point I was referring to.
I remember my school trips costing £250 - £450 and that was in the late 80s and early 90s, so I would be pleasantly surprised to see they cost the same now. How my parents afforded it I'm not sure, we weren't well off (got a full means-tested grant at university), but the fact there was only me to find the money for must have helped. I didn't go on the skiing one (not interested), but went to Germany twice for a week each time and Paris for five days. That was over a period of three school years. The school did give a lot of advance notice though and therefore lots of time to save up.
I have said nothing of the sort.
What I have said is that a lot of families can find the money once in a child's school career if they and their children have the inclination. They don't have to be wealthy. I can't speak for the OP.
Er, yes the OP was on a low income and complaining...hence the discussion.
Shame she's gone, or you could have told her that obviously she could afford it if she was just more careful with her money and stopped making bad choices.
Conversely for the average person (i.e. those who don't stand to inherit a fortune which is not many of us) good luck alone won't get you very far either. Of course good luck is important but you do, to an extent, make your own luck and that requires hard work. By making your own luck, I mean going for a promotion, taking a few chances to get a better paid job - not something I am very good at but some break out of poverty and hand to mouth existence that way.
It is a bit of a tight rope to walk on this one - the luck/hardwork argument I mean, because whilst I get that some people work their butts off for very little, I also resent the idea that luck is responsible for the successes I have had and hard work is written off as inconsequential if you don't have this illusive luck thing on your side. It is more complicated than that.
I think the OP is on low income complaining about these trips but she seems to have long gone.
As an aside, I'm not remotely proud of the inequalities of opportunity that exist in this country. Which is why I believe extending opportunities to as many pupils as possible can only be a good thing.
Removing these chances will only tip the balance of favour even further towards the "haves".
I'm also rather about the the whole work ethic thing, a lot of which is bollocks. I didn't get where I am today (hark at me! I'm not doing that well) with hard work particularly; a great deal of it was luck. My mother conversely worked her arse off all her life in low-paid jobs, brought me up alone (back when it was even harder than it is today) and was constantly at the mercy of capricious landlords and bosses; then died a year into retirement. A fat lot of good hard work did her when she rarely had luck on her side.
Hard work and aspiration are important, but it's naive to assume that they're all it takes.
Has anyone who actually is on a low income complained about trips on this thread?
Or is everyone (rather patronisingly) talking on their behalf?
A society shouldn't be proud about its inequalities imo.
It is divisive - schools shouldn't make things worse for less well off pupils, they should make things better.
Furthermore I think there is a moral obligation, not just on schools but people in general. In the UK that is really difficult to get accepted. In places like the Netherlands and Belgium this is much better (although not perfectly) understood.
The you really have no idea...
You can give me lots of examples of genuinely admirable people who do manage to scrimp and find the money, but to cite these as some kind of proof that therefore everyone can do this or else it's just bad choices is blistering ignorant.
In fact the "poor" kids do get to go on trips. At ds's school pupils on FSM get to go on one big school trip and learn one instrument fee free. That is on a par with most other kids.
Ds and most of his friends were allowed by their parents to choose one GCSE trip. I don't know anyone who is going on more than one. Ds is going on an eye-wateringly expensive history trip but it looks well-organised (and educational!) and, as others have said, it would not be affordable for four of us so it makes sense for ds to go.
I must admit I don't get parents who bleat about school trips full stop. One woman at dd's primary school was whingeing about £6. Now, I don't throw around £6s or any quids come to that lightly, but honestly, would you really begrudge a few pounds for a trip unless you are utterly strapped? These very same people are to be seen every day in the coffee shop by the school. Screwy priorities, methinks.
I have a friend who is a single parent on benefits with three children who is paying into the school saving scheme for her son to go to France in the summer. Her partner died, so it's not even as if she has maintenance money to put towards it. If she can manage, I really don't see why anyone else can't unless they are making bad choices.
Wasn't there a single parent who works part time on this thread who managed to save for the expensive trip? I'm sure she'd be delighted to hear that she's so rich that it doesn't matter if her kid is denied the opportunity for a school ski trip.
Cancel these trips (because schools will not be able to offer them to everybody, it's just not practical), and what do you get? Far far fewer kids who get to experience skiing and travel abroad. Pat on the back, job well done.
Not all children who go n these trips are rich FFS? There is a huge spectrum between being rich and being so poor that you can't save up a few hundred pounds once over an entire school career.
It is simply not realistic for some children to be sent on trips with a huge group of strangers. Be honest, woudo you really send your 12/13/14 year old on a trip with people you had never met? Even if you would, what about those families who have children with ASD who can be catered for by people who know them, but who would have a horrible experience if they were made to go with people they are unfamiliar with?
Those poor discriminated against rich kids
Oh no, wait . . . . . . . .
I really don't think skiing is a necessary educational experience and would rather money was spent on teachers and resources for all children, and that those who could afford and who wished to organised thier own skiing holidays.
Treating pupils equally includes looking at the needs of those children who cannot take trips abroad because do family reasons like the parents being carer to a disabled sibling or elderly parents.
It is not treating all children equally when you only consider the needs of children from poor families.
outraged parents will naturally put their own children first, but schools should be treating all pupils equally.
And this arguement abut 'choice' is facile. As if all any one has to do is just make a few savings here and there as a matter of choice and thier kids will be able to go to Skiing. If you have made the choice to make savings and pay into a payment plan to afford to send your kids on school trips then you are on of the lucky ones.
I'd have thought it was obvious this thread is about those families who whatever they did would not be able to find the money because it's just not there.
You don't have to be on MN for long to realise there are many many families out ther who are living from week to week with the stress of not knowing whether they'll be able to pay all the basic bills- those are the families we are discussing.
Those are the kids who would really benefit from trips and those are the ones who will never have the chance to go.
Yes they've started out on a pretty poor ticket in life, and they'll very soon realise that as friends go on nice holidays etx, but they shouldn't be having differing experiences offered to them in school because of this.
School should be their chance in life to get the same opportunities as everyone else so they can achieve, regardless of thier background,so that they have a chance to overcome the disadvantage they've already got due to their out of school life.
No one is prevented from buying their own children advantages if they can, or skiing holidays if they want, just from agencies other than school.
And if you can't afford the prices the other agencies charge, then apparatently: tough luck, your child will get over it, life's not fair, it's a lesson in life for you and them, and some people managed to save to be able to afford it so why didn't you??
Because, for a start, Porto, Y6 is SATs year.
Secondly, as mentioned previously, parents have to consent to kids being taken out of school. Especially if it's a residential abroad! Apparently your school can just do this.
Thirdly, the vast majority of students with SEN in Belgium go to special schools. In the UK the majority of them go to state schools. Residential ski trips for all would therefore be much more problematic to organise in the UK.
There are more children in the UK admittedly so you might need to spread it out a bit, but the general principle applies.
People putting their own kids first? Madness!
thebody - I have read all the posts. Most of which say things that say that MY child deserves to have this opportunity for xyz reason. And sod everyone elses - they might not SAY that.....
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