To be constantly irritated and holding it down with DD1 20 months?

[QueenCee]

I don't know if I have PND or this is totally normal.
I also have a 4 month old DD.
DD1 is lovely and I do love her but she's a complete hand full. Melt downs over everything... Just being difficult over every little thing. Asks for milk then screams whilst I'm getting it because she wants it this instant. If I move her inside from the garden because it's raining, another melt down. If I change her nappy, she squirms about putting poo everywhere. We go out for a walk, she wants to get out of the pram now... Cue melt down. Walks for 5 mins, cue melt down as wants to be carried.
My DD2 is still EBF and due to her age, quite demanding and needy of me so I struggle with all these melt downs.
Is this normal behaviour from DD and do I just need to crack on and get on with it? Or would you feel this constant irritation and stress?
I'm worried I've got PND and all these other mums love this shit and I'm the odd one out!

[dubbada]

yes its normal, other mothers lie an dit will pass right now all you need to do is whatever it takes to get through it. take help wherever you can get it friends family tots groups anything

cut yourself slack your doing fine

[PomBearWithAnOFRS]

Normal - sorry, it's what DCs of that age do, a lot. I wonder if perhaps she's a bit jealous of the new baby, having been the only one and the Centre of the World all her life, she may be feeling a bit usurped in your attentions. When she acts up, she gets attention, and even negative attention is attention iyswim.
Constant irritation and stress just about sums up an awful lot of life with children - my youngest is 5 and I know exactly what you mean. It gets easier in some ways as they get older, but they get whole new ways of being annoying
I expect lots of people will have some good ideas for things you can do to help though - I'm not much good at advice, I'm a bit of a shouter I'm afraid, and don't have nearly as much patience as I should. Luckily my children forgive me my shortcomings, thankfully!

[BelRowley]

I don't know if you have PND either. Without meaning to sound flippant if you have only 16 months between kids you will naturally be feeling torn in many directions, exhausted and impatient. I have a 20 month old too who behaves much like yours. She was angelic until 19 months. It's quite shock!

So if you think you truly might have PND it would be good to talk to a counsellor or your GP. Can you enlist any more support from family or friends as you may not yet be getting full nights' sleep and breast feeding can feel quite demanding and tiring. I might not have been much help but I just wanted you to know you're not alone in the 20 month old toddler times.

[Iggly]

Normal! Plus new baby makes it even worse.

Let her play in the rain, put her in pull up nappies as easier to change standing up and pick your battles. The goal is to survive each day and make sure everyone is fed (including you).

I have a 7 month old and 29 month old. It's tough. But you're at 4 months so very soon it'll be easier I promise

[ShhhhhGoBackToSleep]

Completely normal behaviour, and completely normal to find it infuriating and hard to cope with! I find it easier to offer choices rather than ultimatums e.g. "Would you like to wear the blue coat or the yellow coat?" "blue one" rather than "put your coat on now please" (cue meltdown)

To be honest, a certain amount of completely random meltdowns just come with the territory no matte how patient and caring the parent and angelic the child. You are not alone!

[008]

I didn`t love it.

My first year with 2 DDs, 18months apart was so, so, so hard ... and my eldest was going to kindergarten 3 mornings a week ... the sleeplessness is crushing, the guilt about not giving the eldest enough time ... the HUGE amounts of washing and poo... gah.

Do you have any support?

Btw, I am not belittling your question about PND, you may also have PND, and maybe a trip to your GP may be in order. It is a really tough time, and it´s definitely the time to get all the support that you can.

[Pandemoniaa]

I wouldn't assume that you have PND but I do know that you won't be alone in going through a difficult time. There was 18 months between ds1 and 2 so by the time ds2 was 4 months old, ds1 was 22 months. He was the King of Tantrums and behaved very much as your dd1 is at the moment. I remember how he'd often wait until I was sitting down to feed ds2 and then present me with all sorts of demands that had to be fulfilled IMMEDIATELY. Most often, even if I did comply, whatever delivered to him was wrong and would trigger a tantrum.

However, I suspect that even without the arrival of a baby brother, much of his behaviour was typical of his age but yes, it could be difficult and definitely not a lot of fun at the time. But then I wasn't alone since many of my friends were also experiencing similarly. We tended to support each other by getting out and about as much as possible so we could collectively share the grief! It really was a phase though.

[soozeedol]

OMG...I feel sorry for you...I'd be leaving the room alot and ignoring the behaviour until it stopped...
I'm sorry but this 'meltdown' stuff is maybe getting too much response from you...if it's raining badly and you have explained why then leave DC on floor screaming til they stop...remove yourself from it...when meltdown has stopped you can help take jacket off, etc and offer a drink and snack...get a toy/puzzle out or whatever....
I really think ignoring and not communicating whilst a child is displaying this sort of behaviour is the way towards it stopping...I don't care what age they are beyond being babies that are totally dependent and immobile...they understand and learn what we let them...maybe your DC has learnt that whinging and screaming is her best tool for everything...

be prepared for alot worse before it starts to improve...switch off from responding to screaming and whinging...there will soon be no value in it for DC.

[SomethingSuitablyWitty]

I also have a DD1 20 mths, but no new baby in the mix: I can imagine that having two is really very hard and a lot of what are feeling is quite simply a reflection of that fact.

DD has also started acting up recently and meltdowns are a lot more frequent if she's tired for example. I agree with Soozeedol that some of this just has to be ignored. I have been amazed to see DD scream absolutely inconsolably about something and just switch it off and revert to calmness after 5 minutes or so of no reaction from her parents. I try to distract and if that doesn't work, offer a quick explanation ( "we can't stay outside if it's pouring rain!" - not that she really understands everything yet!) and then ignore.

The nappy thing was driving me bonkers too - it was actually DH who kind of solved that a few weeks ago, by getting her to be in charge of handing over the wipes, tissues and cream when being changed. She seems to find it quite fun and not tedious anymore. It's been a few weeks now and has made a huge difference. She even stops pulling the wipes out of the packet when you tell her you have enough .

Good luck OP, and hope you feel better. As others have said, this must be the hardest part.

[QueenCee]

Thanks everyone... You've made me feel so much better.
I don't actually think I do have PND but people that do are often in denial so I wasn't sure!
It's just that I feel so bloody annoyed all the time.
I try to hold it down with the kids but end up screaming at DH instead... Poor bloke.
DD1 was also angelic up until about a month ago and has just turned into a complete horror, plus DD2 has not been well since birth so I'm tired and feel pulled in so many directions.
I love your honesty... So many women go on about how amazing it is. TBH I don't like being a mum when I'm on my own. It's hard and frustrating.
When DH is home I love family life because I have some help.
I also never get a break... Long story but we have no one to help so I never get any down time... Am bloody exhausted!

[Pandemoniaa]

I'd agree about ignoring (if possible) every single meltdown or at least being disinterested in engaging when the meltdown follows something that's not negotiable. At this age children don't have the sophisticated communication skills that mean they can offer a reasoned difference of opinions. But equally, there are things that they can choose. So do offer "red coat or blue", rather than battle over the whole issue of coats on or off. If you have to come indoors because it is raining then, with respect, she'll have to get over it!

My dgd is 18 months old (watching her I am amazed that I also had a newborn when my ds1 was her age) and hilarious in how she "manages" a meltdown. Because while she has an ever-increasing vocabulary, again, it's words, not whole concepts that she can argue. So if she has to go back in the buggy against her will but because of necessity, she'll set up a heart-breaking wail all the while carefully checking the reaction it is getting. Which is rarely more than a cheery "sit down in your buggy and when we get to X you can come out and have another walk". Now it's easy for me to manage her (admittedly not very dramatic) meltdowns because I don't have a small baby to care for. But the principle of not making too much of them is still worth trying to achieve.

You might also (if you aren't already doing this) find it helpful to do some activities just with your dd1. It must be unsettling when a new baby comes into the house but as with the other issues, it's not easy for a 22 month old to communicate their feelings with you about this. Hence they are often more demanding as a means of ensuring they get your undivided attention.

[008]

Ok, Queen, you NEED to find yourself some help.

I live abroad (Germany) with no family near ... but there are still childminders, nannys, students etc. There must be SOMEONE who can come for just an hour once every so often so that you can get some time to stop yourself going bonkers.

If that´s really not an option then arrange to go away for a night, either alone, or with a friend. Have some time to look forward to all by yourself. My DH was working away a lot when mine were the same age as yours and he was so concerned about me (I was cross and exhausted the whole time) that he arranged for a friend to come over from the UK. We had no money at the time (thank goodness for easyjet) but his argument was that it was worth it for me to get some perspective, some fun and some time ... and for him to get some of his wife back!

Make getting some time off a priority. Just half an hour here and there can make SUCH a difference.

Also, in the dim and distant future ... it´s great. My two are currently playing around the house and entertain themselves for HOURS together. x

[KitCat26]

Similar age gap here. DD1 was 17mths when DD2 was born.
It is normal to find it really hard work! Making time for both of them and feeling pulled in so many directions at once is difficult.

I found as soon as I'd fed baby I'd put her down and be giving DD1 some attention and that helped. Effectively I was just seeing to baby's needs then putting her on the floor/sofa/boucer/sling/playpen and carrying on as normally as possible with DD1.

It will get easier. For me it got easier in stages- 6wks ish, 12wks, 6mths, all coinciding with baby getting bigger and doing more - sleeping longer/crawling/weening. The first year was damage limitation, minimal housework and doing anything for an easy life though.

Now they are nearly 3 and 17mths its much easier and we're considering the madness of a third. You will get through it and everyone feels the same!

(Oh and nappy changing took place on the window sill as soon as each of the DDs could stand- there is only so far they can squirm poo there and they can't run off!)

[QueenCee]

Oh you ladies are great!
And 008 "cross and exhausted" describes me to the letter!
It's nice to know its normal and not me cracking up. It's the constant irritation and suppressing those feelings that makes it bubble over with DH.
A break is not on the cards... My family don't help and IL's don't live nearby.
As I'm mat leave, we are so broke there's no way we could afford a nursery or child minder. I'm actually looking forward to going back to work!!!

[tablefor4]

I'll echo everyone else to say that those first 6-7 months with DC2 is a dark and lonely place. And 4 months is probably the lowest.

But, there is a little ray of sunshine on the horizon which slowly spreads to lighten the sky (or somesuch dribble). Without wishing DC2's babyhood away, as they get older it gets easier and you get less tired (better sleep, no longer BFing etc). The first ray for me was when DC1 and 2 and I sat down and all had the same lunch at the same time. DC2 was c7 months. It was a lightbulb moment.

For now though I'll leave you wioth 2 Churchillisms (to be taken with a pinch of salt, especially the first): "when you're going through hell, keep going" and "Keep Buggering On"

[BarredfromhavingStella]

Perfectly normal, 2 years between mine & god is it HARD work!!!!
As has already been suggested, try to ignore the meltdowns & they will become less frequent & intense & as for the mums that look as though they are loving it & perfectly calm-that's more than likely how you appear to the outside world

[soozeedol]

definitely try to get some time out chance every week...you might even find going to the library for an hour or so when DH is home in the evening...if not for the books (since reading a novel may be few and far between at mo!) then maybe the news papers, on-line stuff/shopping and MN too!!...peaceful, out of the house and there are adults around you may have a chat with sometimes too...libraries hold lots of group stuff too...
Maybe a class/craft/etc group of some sort??
Don't know if you are BF baby but maybe you can express as back-up for DH while you're out between feeds or something....
chin up...it's all worth it...remember to find the fun and relish it every day x

[popsypie]

17 months between my dds. My friend had the same and we call it "the bad old days"!! Now they are 7 and 6 and lovely most of the time at least and such good friends. But omg op dark days indeed at first. Felt like a washed out rag most of the days and had lots of guilt for both girls for diff reasons.

Remember feeding dd2 whilst dd1 rearranged the coals on the fire or bit one, then went and got a roll of tin foil and rolled it out across the lounge!!! Funny now - not so funny then! We moved when dd2 was four weeks old too -crazy!!!

Wish someone had said to me - lower your standards and ask for more help. I was a bit of a martyr and ground myself down, I would do it diff now, but hindsights a wonderful thing! You are normal op. get some help
And rest - exhaustion is awful. And remember this too will pass. Good luck

[Minesaguinness]

Sounds about right to me. I have a 3YO and a 18m. Some days, I feel like everything that comes out of my mouth is a negative. "Don't do that. Get down. Get off. Stop pushing. Stop shouting. Put that down. Pick that up."...and breathe....

What helps me cope is to allow and accept that it is OK to be annoyed and frustrated sometimes. It is perfectly acceptable to feel that way and ANYONE would. You'll send yourself mad if you think you should be all happy and perfect all the time and anything else is abnormal.

[popsypie]

My dad used to come over for ten mins and say "no wonder you're depressed. This is misery"!!! Somehow the total bluntness of it and the sincerity he said it with always made me laugh. Think as mums we are told to "cherish every moment" too often and more people should say - it is totally hard work - get through each day with everyone clean, fed and breathing and you have done well!!!

[TokenGirl1]

I really feel for you, it's tough! I don't really have any help either and DH works V long hours!

The best thing I ever did was sign up to a 15 week maths course at the local children's centre (they do English too). It was free and I managed to have 2 hours off per week to sit down, relax and have a cup of tea while my DC's were in the creche in the next room. My DS was 6 months and my DD was 21 months. It was great because if the little one need BF, then I could just bring him into the room and feed him. I could hear if one of them was crying. I would never have been able to leave them with a childminder at that age (through guilt, having the choice of being a SAHM) so this was perfect because they were a few metres away from me in another room. It was so relaxed and I don't think that I would have survived without it. Mind you, I had to pretend I didn't have a GCSE in Maths so I could do the course. BTW I LOVED the course too so it was well worth doing, good for kickstarting the fuzzy baby brain....

Also, there's a scheme called Home Start where you can get a volunteer parent visit you or go out with you for a few hours a week. You could maybe think about something like that, I think it's free. Perhaps someone could come to your home and cuddle your baby while you play with your daughter to give her some attention then perhaps it will help if she's feeling a bit usurped?

When I was really, really desperately tired and we were out and about in the car and the kids fell asleep, I would park in a car park, lock the doors and have a doze myself.

Good luck! It does get easier. My two are now 2 and 3 and now I'm dreading them going to school and trying to relish every minute with them while I still have them at home.

[QueenCee]

You guys are truly amazing!
All your posts have made me feel do much better and normal about my feelings.
I wish women in real life were more honest with each other. The support from the honest accounts is invaluable and all these fake perfect lives just make other people feel like poo.
Thank you so very much

[SomethingSuitablyWitty]

Glad posting helped a bit Queen Cee. I really hope you can get a bit of support. I also don't have family or ILs nearby, but I had a couple of mum friends at a similar stage while on ML and we used to meet up and go to each other's houses. Even though getting out the door to go places (and this was only with one!) was like climbing Everest and I used to arrive in a state of stress, it ALWAYS helped to get out of the house and get some sympathetic adult company. I really don't know how I would have managed otherwise. On bad days when I didn't get out, I was also no picnic for poor DH to come home to. Also, being at home means you do spend a lot of time trying to tidy and clean up because you are right in the middle of it - when you're out, you don't have that pressure. It's better that way. And getting out in the evening once they're both in bed might be nice too - even if it's just for a walk with a friend or something. Best of luck with it all!!

[Pseudo341]

I think it's pretty normal, it's stressful being stuck at home with a baby and a nearly terrible twos. Only useful thing I can suggest is one of these
www.amazon.co.uk/Rabbitts-Safety-Changing-Mat-Cream/dp/B000UEPTMU?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21
sorry, can't find anywhere that actually has them in stock at the moment. I've always used one and my 22m DD soon got the idea that if she's strapped in there's no point struggling, stops the poo spreading too far.

[Pseudo341]

www.amazon.co.uk/Rabbitts-Safety-Changing-Mat-Cream/dp/B000UEPTMU?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21