AIBU to not be overly-excited about dp's new job offer.

[Peanutbuttertuesday]

I feel like a cow-and-a-half for saying this, but i don't really think he's getting a good deal.
DP has just been offered some some new part time work for a company he already does freelance work for. He would be keeping his old job (which he really doesn't like, but is very good at) and going down to doing three days a week with them and working two days a week at the studio (he's trained as an audio engineer).
All together, he would be earning about £150 less a month, which probably doesn't sound like a lot, but we don't have an overly high income and it would effect us quite a bit, especially as we were talking about moving somewhere bigger and trying for another little one.
He started off working for them being payed a lump sum for a few hours work, and they kept adding more and more work for him to do and not upping his pay (something i didn't really agree with, but accepted as he was doing something he really loved).
He thinks it will further his career, i think he'd be better off keeping the freelance work he has with them and looking elsewhere for a full time job.
Please help!

[ViviPru]

Does he currently freelance 5 days a week for them?

[Tchootnika]

I think I agree with you, Peanut. Better to stay as he is.
Why does he think this move will further his career? It sounds like it'll remove any flexibility, for a start.

[Peanutbuttertuesday]

Sorry, i wasn't clear.
No, about 8 hours a week in total, after work.
If he took the job he'd be ending the freelance and including it in the two days he'd be working for the studio, then carrying on his other job for three days pw.

[Rowena8482]

Sounds like the company are trying to get the same or more work from him, and pay less money out for it.

[Tchootnika]

Rowena is almost certainly right.

How long has he been there, Peanut? Is it that he thinks his job will be more secure this way? Because that's not necessarily the case.

[Peanutbuttertuesday]

Thats what i think, Tchootnika.
He would be doing a greater variety of work, which i agree would be good experience, but nothing he couldn't find elsewhere.

[WhoseGotMyEyebrows]

Yeah sounds like they are trying to get more out of him for less money.

Confused about whether he is a full time freelancer or not.

[ViviPru]

have they delivered it as an ultimatum? Will they get pissy and withdraw his current freelance arrangement if he refuses?

[Tchootnika]

If he's been there consistently for 2 years + then he has security of tenure, therefore doesn't need to accept this offer to keep working there.

[ViviPru]

really, tchootnika?

[ViviPru]

ok so let me get this straight...

He currently works full-time 5 days a week doing a job he's a bit meh about and 8hrs extra per week doing something he enjoys and earns X per month in total.

He has the option to do the meh job for 3 days and the more enjoyable job for 2 days and earn X- £150 per month in total

is that correct?

[Peanutbuttertuesday]

Thats it! Well done, much more articulate than myself.
I don't think so Vivipru, it sounds like they need him, the reason the studio suggested it in the first place was because they were having to turn down work.
He's been there for about 6 months, but as i said, i don't think that's something we have to worry about.

[Tchootnika]

I think so, Vivi. Correct me if I'm wrong...

[ViviPru]

Ok then, heres what he needs to do.

I think he should accept their offer, he's right, it could well be a stepping stone toward a more fulfilling career. BUT, he needs to renegotiate his fee. He is in a very strong bargaining position; they clearly need him and he is adding value to their business. You might be surprised what they are wiling to pay if they think they may risk him withdrawing his services altogether.

The minimum extra fee he should demand for accepting this 2-day arrangement should be at least £150 per month (to make up for the overall shortfall you're going to experience). That will probably be peanuts compared to what most business are being invoiced for freelancers. He should start the negotiations higher than that.

I totally appreciate that some people aren't as comfortable with this kind of thing as others, particularly if you have DCs to provide for, its natural to err toward the more secure options. But play this right and you could be in a position where your DP is earning the same (or ideally more) than he is currently, spending more time doing something he enjoys, feeling more optimistic about his career prospects, and with more time free in the evenings to spend with you. Win-Win.

I'm about to have a very similar conversation with one of my biggest clients tomorrow, so good luck and I'll be interested to hear how this turns out.

[Takitezee]

Does the £150 take into account that he'll get holiday pay as a permanent employee?

[ViviPru]

Hmm - I assumed he'd be doing the extra 2 days as a freelancer - so do they want to take him on the payroll? They may not have considered the option of taking him on as a 2-day freelance (which may be an option more they haven't considered which could actually be more beneficial to them)

Either way - he needs to treat this offer as the first step in a series of negotiations whereby his goal is the scenario I described in the 4th paragraph of my previous post.

[ViviPru]

oops too many mores in that post

[Peanutbuttertuesday]

Great advice, thanks very much.
What would be the advantages of taking him on as a 2-day freelancer?
Good luck to you too.

[ViviPru]

As a freelancer, he will see his bottom line increase significantly than were he on the payroll for 2 days.

As a regular employee, sure, he will get a certain number of statutory benefits - the likes of which I have not missed one iota since becoming self employed 5 years ago, the increase in income covers most of these.

Say the company has budgeted X amount to pay an employee per day, a large proportion of that sum will be taken out to cover those 'benefits', and the employee will have to pay tax & NI. The bottom line that the employee gets in their pay packet is X minus a big old wedge.

If he invoices as a sole trader, or better still a limited company, the company he's working for will still pay X per day, but he gets it straight, with no prior deductions and with some careful accounting, he can get a massive reduction in tax & NI. Add onto that registering for VAT and your looking at some hefty savings.

Not only that, the company he's working for will have fewer costs involved in employing a freelancer than they would a regular payroll-employee so they may be more inclined to increase the amount they're willing to pay.

It takes a certain kind of person to feel comfortable with all this, but if you can get past the idea that its less secure, you will soon realise that there's no better security than being in control of your own employment.

All that said, you DO have to make sure your fee reflects that additional risk factor, which is why its important he negotiates!!

[ViviPru]

URGH disgusted at self for atrocious misuse of your