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What is going on with my toddler? (looooong)

13 replies

BlueKarou · 18/12/2018 12:20

This is going to be pretty identifying for anyone who knows me personally - so if you do think you know me, let's just do the secret MN head nod and just leave it at that, eh?

Apologies if this is long - I'm not sure what's relevant and what's not, so will try to provide a quick background;

  • Beginning of September this year old nursery shut down very unexpectedly. My son had only gone one morning a week and it had taken a long time to settle him in.


  • Middle of October, start at new preschool. One 'day' a week (6 hours). As expected it's been really tough to get him to settle - crying the first few times, then lots of clinging to me, hiding behind me, etc. I am assured that he's fine once I've left (first few weeks he needed to go to a quiet place to calm down and then joined in, more recently he takes his key worker's hand and is happy(ish) to be led in. He still gets really stressed before, and needs to be carried in from the car, but it's slowly getting easier.


  • All other childcare Mon-Thurs provided by his Nanna (my Mum). It's just him and me at home. (Sperm donor, so no dad, never has been.) Nanna had borrowed a toy from the toy library - a Thomas the Tank Engine train set with a skeleton dinosaur as part of it. He's big into dinosaurs. This was borrowed before the NHM trip, and returned last week.


  • Beginning of December he and I take the train to London to meet his aunt. We went to the Natural History Museum. He was fine until he saw the big moving T Rex. He did not like that one bit, so we hurried on through the dino exhibit and then bought him a toy dinosaur that he had picked for himself. He was fine for the rest of the day, got a little tired, but nothing unusual, and we came home.


That's all the history I think I need... So now, he's 2.10, he's pretty much dropped his naps, maybe has 2 a week. He sleeps fairly well, sometimes wakes once in the night, sometimes sleeps through 7:30 - 7:30. I think he ought to have more sleep, but if he naps in the day then he's up til 9pm at night, sleeping in to 8am.

Two days ago - Sunday - out of nowhere he suddenly seemed a little off; clingy, we had a lie down on the sofa after lunch and usually he'll use this as an excuse to climb on me, play, etc. Sunday we both fell asleep for 2 hours. He wasn't really with it for the rest of the afternoon, had his hands over his mouth, then from about 5pm started crying for Nanna. Off and on crying and moaning for the next 5 hours - he was eating, albeit not as much as usual, but he's generally a picky eater at the moment, and drinking milk and water as usual. I took him out for a drive around to see the Christmas lights and that calmed him a bit, but he did ask to go to Grandad's house (separate to Nanna's house) and then started crying again when we got back home. Hand over mouth half the time. He did also keep making references to dinosaurs, and 'dinosaur gone' and 'no dinosaur'. No temperature. I do give him some calpol, but that doesn't make much of a difference. He eventually cries himself to sleep in bed with me cuddling him.

Monday morning he's still a bit sad, hand over mouth, late wake up due to late sleep Sun night, so I call preschool and say he's not feeling up to it. He brightens up a bit after his advent calendar chocolate, and then I drop him at his Nanna's house. He's almost ok all day, a few crying/moaning moments (groaning might be a better word than moaning), more talk about the dinosaurs, and some calling for me, but he's ok until 5:30pm when I collect him, we get home, he watches some Peppa, still has hand over his mouth a lot of the time. He has his bath, brushes his teeth, all mostly ok. Then immediately after the bath he's crying again, seems to want bed and story, but is crying all through the story (an old favourite) - cries himself to sleep at about 8pm, then wakes twice before midnight and needs to be cuddled back to sleep. Wakes again after midnight and I bring him in with me (that's the unwritten rule in our house - if he wakes up after I've gone to bed he comes in with me. I'm on my own and I can't function without some sleep, and he sleeps better in my bed, and he's still only young. Eventually he'll sleep through more reliably, but for now we do what works.) I notice as he goes off to sleep that even when sleeping his hand's over his mouth.

This morning again he's reluctant to wake up, but once he's awake he's lucid and talking, if a little grumpy. He eats his advent choc and I take him to Nanna's. It's their Xmas party at toddlers and, as I could have predicted, he has a bit of a breakdown when Santa arrives. Sounds like he was a bit shaky and hand over mouth before Santa got there. (Incidentally, Santa was played by my stepdad, so not a complete stranger, but the suit and the beard probably masked that.) Mum took him outside and called me as he was asking for me. I popped over and gave him a cuddle, but as soon as Santa was gone he was fine again, so I've come back to work.

I don't really know what to do about this - the crying all night, the hand over mouth, it's all really out of character. It doesn't feel like a medical thing, so I've not gone to the doc, but I'm starting to think of maybe getting a call in with the GP just to see what they think. He's eating less, so he's pooing less, but he's drinking and weeing fine.

My wild googling (never a good idea) has raised a few things, but I've tabled them;
  • It's a bit late for his 2nd molars - I've not got a clear look in his mouth yet - am staying at Mum's for dinner this evening so between us we can get a good look in his mouth and see if we can see anything.
  • Likewise I don't think it's Thrush - can't really see in his mouth, but there doesn't seem to be anything physical, and he's eating mostly like normal.
  • I'm ruling out nightmares because the crying only ramps up before bedtime, not after.
  • Mum thinks it could be stress, and I'm starting to entertain that - the new preschool, the dinosaur, not LOTS of changes, but things have been a little rocky the past couple of months.
  • Hand, Foot, and Mouth was going round preschool a month ago, but I can't see any ulcers or blisters, and his hands and feet are definitely clear.
  • Ears? I know ears can cause all sorts of weird symptoms in kids. His hearing's fine, so probably grasping a bit.


Any other ideas? As I've said, I'm thinking of calling the GP, I just hesitate because he doesn't seem to have anything physically wrong. I know no one on the internet can diagnose anything, even from my essay. I think I just need some 3rd party perspective - do toddlers sometimes go through these weird out-of-character episodes? Should I be more concerned or less concerned?
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slappinthebass · 18/12/2018 12:33

I'm usually reluctant to recommend the GP but in this case it would be useful to investigate. He might have a sore throat or something they can discover. I'd also try giving him ibuprofen as it's a much better pain killer than Calpol and if he calms after that then that's a good indicator it's physical.

Stress/anxiety sounds very high. Hand over mouth could potentially be a type of stim. I'd consider doing the M-Chat test online?

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BlueKarou · 18/12/2018 13:27

Thanks for wading through that horrendously long post and replying.

I hadn't done the M-Chat test before. Doing it now comes out low scoring - risk level of 1. I have wondered about it before given that he is shy around new people, and as I've tentatively self-diagnosed myself as high-functioning. But with kiddo he loves other kids, and he's definitely discovered pretend play, and his obsessions seem to be fleeting toddler obsessions rather than anything more indicative.

I'll try ibuprofen tonight if he starts getting wound up again, and will go ahead with the GP chat.

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queenrollo · 18/12/2018 13:43

I would get him checked over by a GP. I had a grumbly out of sorts toddler and it wasn't until his eardum burst and I saw the fluid come out that we realised he had actually been suffering with awful earache. He's nearly 6 now, but when he is ill he still finds it really hard to verbalise what/where the pain is.
When mine is ill or brewing something he often focuses on something from his past that he found upsetting. It's like the trauma comes to the forefront when he is ill.
I think having a once-over at the GP would be my first step.

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BlueKarou · 18/12/2018 14:17

Thanks queen. I wasn't sure how much to focus on the dinosaur thing -it's been a while since either of the incidents I could think of, so might just be something he's picked on if he's unable to effectively communicate what's wrong.

The GPs didn't have an appointment for today so I'm on the list for a phone call this afternoon - this will probably end up with them making me an appointment after the phone call. Annoyingly I'm away all day with work tomorrow, but Mum can take him in if I'm not around.

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Idontknowwhyinfrench · 18/12/2018 14:22

COuld he have had a bad dream?
My ds has suffered badly from nightmares from an early age and will still (at 7) get upset in the day if something reminds him of one of them.
Also-tics are pretty common with young children-The hand over mouth could be something like that?

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Frlrlrubert · 18/12/2018 14:42

DD (2.3) has HF&M at the moment and she was weird a couple of days before - really withdrawn for the nursery play when usually she loves that sort of thing, not wanting to get up, really short or really long naps, sore throat and mouth ulcers were well before any visible blisters.

I'd say the weirdness started Wednesday, feverish Saturday night, blisters Sunday.

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DishranawaywiththeSpoon · 18/12/2018 15:04

He not that late for his second molars, hes the right age albeit at the high end

I was going to say maybe sore throat, hand foot and mouth, maybe an ulcer? Or herpes infection? Something making his mouth sore but perhaps before initial presentation ? Maybe even a cavity?

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BlueKarou · 18/12/2018 15:23

Quickest GP telephone call ever, he says to up the pain relief; use both calpol and ibruprofen, and to get kiddo booked in with a dentist (which I'm overdue in doing Blush ) as it sounds like it could be something with his teeth or maybe an ulcer - so could still be the start of HF+M.

Doesn't really explain why it's only at night time, but it's some action to take to see if we can settle things down.

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Frozenteatowel · 18/12/2018 15:30

Glad you got seen so quickly. Re molars. It is on the late side but DGD is still awaiting her last two at 3.3! Never known a kid take so long to acquire a full set of gnashers. So far with the last few molars she cut she was grumpy, wakeful and upset at night, spitting food out and not eating much. I hope dentist sheds some light on what’s bothering DS and he’s soon chirpier.

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BlueKarou · 20/12/2018 12:18

Updating, more to keep a timeline than anything else.

The last 2 evenings have still been hand-over-mouth and crying to sleep, but he's been less distressed during the day/early evenings. Last night there was definitely a lot of dribbling, and the hand wandered into the mouth a lot, so I'm erring towards those upper molars (I can definitely see both lower ones) - Ibruprofen has been given, but isn't that effective.

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Frozenteatowel · 20/12/2018 19:09

It does sound very likely to be tooth related. If ibuprofen not helping have you tried alternating it with
Calpol?

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moreismore · 20/12/2018 19:17

It def sounds like teeth could be part of it. I’ve just finished reading Steve bidulph’s ‘raising boys’. I also have a shy pre-schooler who gets stressed easily and it was very interesting.
Boys up to age 3 apparently find it much harder to settle in childcare than girls.
Early developmental stage is basically forming strong attachment with mum, knowing they’re safe, constant need for reassurance and cuddles etc. Then they gradually get more confident to explore knowing that you will always be there. Any stressful event knocks them back a stage for a while-so is treat it as you have been with loads of cuddles and reassurance.
My son had all his molars before 2 but in times of stress (my husband is away a lot with work for long periods) he has chewed his lips raw and now progressed to chewif fingers-I think it’s just a comfort thing.
So basically it sounds relatively normal and I’d just keep following your instincts as you have been.

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BettyOBarley · 20/12/2018 19:24

The hand over the mouth does sound like teeth maybe, but my 2yr old DS has recently gone from going down to sleep with no issues whatsoever to crying and screaming at bedtime for up to 2 hours every single goddamn night for the past 2 months, it's awful. Apparently 2 year sleep regression is a thing according to Google.

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