Cat calling

[Cocklodger]

I'm sure this one has been done to death, I don't frequent the board often tbh.
now I hate catcalling. I'm sure every woman has or will experience it. Its not pleasant. It makes me angry and sometimes it scares me,
But today I've seen a post on FB (with someone of a similar view point to me) being ripped into, because
''Its just a compliment''
she's a ''fun sucker''
''I bet she would've REALLY just asked for his number''... Those comments came from women.
Now I, being me decided to defend this person and found the same comments hurled at me. I've now just left it because I've gotten to the point where I can no longer even try to come up with a coherent argument. I have also received personal insults(about my appearance and the fact I'm obviously a bit fat since I was recently pregnant baby under 2wks old)
i just didn't realize how acceptable it was, I genuinely thought it was wildly noted as pretty fucking annoying (If I'm being generous)
I don't even know what to say.
Wtf is wrong with people?
Can someone please reassure me that I'm not wrong? I know I sound bloody pathetic but for some reason finding out how acceptable it is has actually quite scared and shaken me a lot....

[Lottapianos]

Totally agree with you about cat calling. Its about making women feel small and scared, and nothing to do with an honest and kind compliment. Its not acceptable, and I share your horror that there are women who rush to defend it.

However, as we all know, especially after last week's election result, misogyny is utterly rife, including among women. I know a woman who put a post on Facebook declaring her outrage at Trump's victory (fair enough), but at the end of it, decided to link to a page of Melania Trump's nude photographs, instead of link to one of the nine million possible articles highlighting what a horrendous piece of work Trump himself is. I called her out on it, she didn't get it. At all. I really wanted to continue the argument, but I left it. No point.

So I hear you OP and well done for speaking up. Some people can't handle genuine discussion and fair argument and resort to name calling and nastiness to shut you up. You had your say, but for your own sanity, know when to walk away

[Cocklodger]

How do we change things?
I wouldn't know where to start. I've been called a feminazi, If that means I don't think women should be objectified then where can I get a badge please?

[Pizanfan]

Lottapianos

Scientific evidence would disagree with your opinion that catcalling is designed to make 'women feel small and scared'.

Men act a certain way around each other, it's a group dynamic that changes. In the same way women make different decisions when in groups of other women.

Ask yourself what type of guy has catcalled you? What was the situation? and why did he do it?

In my experience, when I go out and party with my friends we get very sexually aggressive in a way we wouldn't in any other scenario.

The few times I have been cat called it has been in typical scenarios, walking next to a buidling site 2 guys called silly things off a roof, I soon entered the building, chatted with the foreman and both guys were disciplined and sent home. The other time was on the street at early hours in the morning, I and one other was walking down a busy street where a guy told us to 'get our tits out', we told him to f* off and as I turned around I saw a women 5 yards from me actually pull her top up FFS.

So lets put it in perspective, it isn't a good thing, when you see it react how you want, I always confront or humiliate, but your welcome to ignore if you like, but they are words, from a certain type of guy (usually not very smart, or succesfull) in a certain scenario, and not rape, shouldn't cause PTSD or require fear of the bogey man.

[SpeakNoWords]

Could you point me to the scientific evidence please?

None has mentioned it causing PTSD or fear of the bogeyman, not sure why you've mentioned that.

[Lottapianos]

'but they are words, from a certain type of guy (usually not very smart, or succesfull) in a certain scenario, and not rape, shouldn't cause PTSD or require fear of the bogey man.'

I don't know what you're talking about. No-one has mentioned PTSD or even fear, and certainly not rape. The other posters on here including me find catcalling unpleasant. None of us have said we are traumatised or scarred for life by it. You're one step away from calling us hysterical, and that's extremely unhelpful.

Almost every time I have been catcalled, it has been one lone man, rather than a group of alpha male types. I don't know what point you're making by sharing your examples of catcalling, but the one on the street in the early hours sounds particularly unpleasant.

I totally agree that these men are not the sharpest tools in the box, but words are important, and they hurt and upset and potentially scare people. I don't share your 'just the way of the world' attitude on this.

[Pizanfan]

Speak

Are you actually kidding me? You want me to cite evidence of group dynamics in human psychology?

Google Scholar, Google books, libraries...

'It makes me angry and sometimes it scares me'

'I've now just left it because I've gotten to the point where I can no longer even try to come up with a coherent argument.'

Being scared, and hysteria effecting rationale thought hurt the perception of women don't you think?

I'm not promoting cat calling, i'm not slating the OP, i'm saying perspective is a beautifull thing.

[Pizanfan]

Lottapianos

Being scared is mentioned by the OP, also the inability to control emotion to a point where you cannot debate is the technical term of hysteria is it not?

My attitude is clearly not 'just the way of the world' (not sure why you quoted that, I didn't say any of those words), as I react poorly to catcalling.

Please read my points before typing.

[Lottapianos]

There it is, that predictable word 'hysteria'. How tiresome.

You're the one who brought up PTSD and 'the bogeyman', so I would say that you're sounding a bit hysterical yourself Pizanfan. Maybe you're hunky-dory with catcalling, other posters on here clearly are not. There - I've put it in perspective for you.

[SpeakNoWords]

You dropped the "scientific evidence shows.." line. If you want to say that you surely need to give some indication of why you say that. Otherwise it's just your totally unjustified assertion with no explanation provided. Anyone could say that about anything.

[Cocklodger]

I get angry when a group of teen boys call me 'fuckable'
I got scared when aged 15 I was walking to my mums house and a van of men started ''complimenting'' me and saying I had a nice arse, was fuckable and they'd like to 'bust a nut' in me, and I ran to my mums house crying. So hell yeah sometimes it makes me angry, sometimes it makes me sad, frightened, ashamed and many other emotions
Its not 'hysteria' to be unable to come up with a coherent argument in the face of both personal insults, jokes at the expense of my experiences and arguments, is it really? :S

[Pizanfan]

Lottapianos

Again you are just flat out lying, if you please state where I have promoted cat calling quote me and i'll apologise, if i've defended a cat caller please quote me and i'll apologise...

If you find evidence of me condemning cat calling then please apolgise, fair enough?

[scallopsrgreat]

So Pizan, you feel its OK to dismiss women's feelings on this? And cite non-existent 'scientific evidence'. This isn't about "group dynamics in human psychology".

Btw, it is OK for women to feel scared when someone intimidates them. That isn't 'hysterical'. It is reasonable. You are the one hurting the perception of women, by not believing them.

[Pizanfan]

Speak

Ok I see your POV, and will ask you to read a book named Group dynamics, by Forsyth (5th edition).

That would be a decent start, and then we can move on to more nuanced literature?

My point is, science clearly proves people act different ways around differing people. And men in groups act a certain way toward women not to scare them, infact it has nothing to do with the women, it's all about their position within the group. Similar way that young a@@ehole kids ran around playing the knockout game, it was never about the victim, it was about their status within a group.

[Im0gen]

Yeah, men do it to humiliate you and put you in your place and make you scared to retaliate.

How dare you feel humiliated and demeaned and frightened! You are obviously stupid and illogical.

[Im0gen]

And the solution is to go and read a book about why men do it. Because women shouldn't have feelings and views of their own. Their perspective isn't valid. It's only men's views that count.

[MilkTwoSugarsThanks]

Is it along the same lines as Brexit & Trump's election?

I think part of the problem is that the women who do see it as a compliment are fed up of being told they're wrong, they're misogynists, their views don't matter because some women don't like it.

I think that's what's wrong with people. 2 sides shouting each other down and neither listening.

[SpeakNoWords]

Blimey, PizanFan, you are hard work and patronising.

Wtf has group dynamics got to do with it? Men on their own do this too. What are they doing it for?

[Pizanfan]

Why is nobody reading what i'm saying, i didn't say 'chin up buttercup' and was not rude or harsh, I was trying to explain why men do what they do, why women act similar sometimes, and that when it has happened to me I have refused to be a victim.

Whats wrong with being strong, and trying to promote strength within other women by explaining the scenario that scares them.

PS I've cat called plenty, at comedy shows, at strip clubs, and on the street. In the right scenarios it is perfectly acceptable, in the wrong scenario it is disgusting and you have to stamp it out.

[SpeakNoWords]

Saying you have refused to be a victim implies you think that some women do choose to be victims unreasonably? Is that right? We should all be as strong as you, which is just a simple choice we can all make, and then problem solved?

[scallopsrgreat]

This isn't about "group dynamics". For a start this is done by lone men too.

Why do these men only catcall women? If it were about place in the group (and I'm not denying that plays a part when groups are involved) why pick on women?

Saying it isn't about the victim totally erases the valid feelings of the victim. They are the ones humiliated/intimidated/upset. It also isn't true. Just like racial harassment targets certain victims.

"Whats wrong with being strong, and trying to promote strength within other women by explaining the scenario that scares them." Except that wasn't what you were doing - you were calling women who were scared, hysterical. But if we are on the subject, why are men putting us ion the situation where we have to stand up to them and 'be strong'?

[scallopsrgreat]

Except the problem isn't solved Speak. Because men will carry on intimidating. It's not actually sorting out the root of the problem at all. Just the symptoms.

[SpeakNoWords]

Absolutely scallops.

[scallopsrgreat]

Sorry just reread that and it came out a bit wrong. I'm not really speaking to you on that as I suspect we are on the same page! I'm agreeing with you that the problem won't be solved!

[scallopsrgreat]

Oh you got what I was saying

[SpeakNoWords]