Narsissistic personality disorder

[therealme]

I'm English, living overseas. I'm married for 17 yrs and most of that has been pretty awful. I recently 'came clean' about my abusive relationship with dh on a parenting site where I live and I have had my eyes opened for the first time that maybe it's not all my fault anymore. I have blamed myself for everything that has 'gone wrong' in my marriage - although I have genuinly messsed up on more than one occasion.

I received a lot of support from people but didn't believe I was worthy of it. Then somebody suggested I google Narsissistic Personality Disorder and that is the moment my whole world changed. For the very fist time I began to see that maybe it wasn't ME that might have all the problems. I saw my 'perfect' dh described in black and white and the words 'personality disorder' were attached to his behaviours. To say the ground shifted from under me would be an understatement.

So now I find myself at a turning point in my life. I know I have to end my marriage. It's emotionally, verbally and mentally abusive. I now recognise that I am a shell of the person that I once was, have had the life blood drained out of me, but still have enough of a spark in me to want to fight for some peace of life at 42! I have 3 children whom I love and adore - but who also love their Daddy. I'm living financially independently from my dh who refused to support me financially after ds 2 was born 6 yrs ago. I want him out of the house and out of my life!

I've made my mind up, but I am still so weak when it comes to taking action. I have spent so long living in a confused and guilt-ridden state, does that make sense?
Is there anybody out there who has experience of living with a narsissistic partner? How do you make the break? How do you ever find the strength to stand up to them in order that you might have some quality of life left for yourself? Please advise.....

[Unlikelyamazonian]

Hello. Yes my h had this disorder and there are a couple of others on here who know exactly what you have been through too and can support and advise.

Firstly, do you absolutely need to get him out of the house? Could you leave and go somewhere? Do you have family back here at home you could go 'on holiday' to see with the dcs and not go back (drastic I know.)

Does he know that you have made up your mind and want him to leave? When my H knew his cover was blown he just stole everything and abandoned us.

If you live financially independently from your h that is good. Is the house in joint names? Make sure he cannot clear any bank accounts or savings before you do anything.

Is he English? You can do this. You can, you can and you must. I was 44 when my H farked off (he fled abroad and is living a pack of lies but is the charming suave intelligent man on the outside. A whore-shagging fuck-up who cares nothing for anybody but himself on the inside)

Your life will improve immeasurably. You got tangled with him because you had a crap childhood yourself and were trained well by your parents to be these disordered men's victim.

Read up as much as you can about NPD as knowing it all will make you feel better about yourself. Could either or both of your parents have the disorder?

People will think you are bonkers talking about this (most of them) but we who have suffered them will not!

Is he likely to get physically abusive if you suggest he leaves? Could you access Women's Aid by phone from where you are abroad? They are tremendously helpful. Ring North Devon Women's Aid perhaps (they helped me and were magnificent) Telephone: 01271 370080
Opening Times: Mon-Fri 9am-5pm. Look at their site here

Others will be along soon to advise more. I am a 13 months down the line now and although it nearly killed me, I am alive, surviving, am back to my old self nearly and most importantly of all my sn who is now 21 months old, is absolutely wonderful and fine and very very jolly.

Look out for Gettingagrip...she will support you too...Hi St GG!! Keep posting for support. Hugs to you

[Unlikelyamazonian]

sorry, you didn't say you had a crap childhood...but if you did it might answer a few questions. x If you didn't you were very unlucky to meet your H.

[gettingagrip]

Hello therealme

There are some very good sites out there about this PD.

I have sadly got a lifetime of experience living with these half-human freaks.

The first thing I will say is that it is very important that you get your children away from this nutter as soon as you can. Their mental health as well as your own is at great risk.

There is no way on earth that you can reason with these 'people', or even have anything like a normal conversation.

There will be people on this site (and in RL) who will tell you that it takes two to make a marriage and that you just have to compromise a bit more blah blah blah

If your partner has NPD you have to GET OUT AS FAST AS YOU CAN.

Some links you may not have come across

thepsychopath.freeforums.org/index.php

www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/

Keep posting as there are some of us who are sadly experts in PDs.

xxxxxxx

[therealme]

Thank you for your replies, I find myself in dire need of support right now from people who understand the full implications of what living with someone with NPD can do to a person. My mum and sister are aware of what is going on since I told them a few weeks ago. They weren't surprised but have no idea how I have become so worn down and mentally drained over the years. It't hard to explain in one phonecall just how I got to this situation i'm in now - the years of abuse have erroded my self esteem, my personality, my ability to think rationally. I question everything I think and feel. I can't make decisions any longer. I don't know who I am any more.

Unlikelyamazonian you were right about my childhood being crap! I have googled NPD till my eyes are sore and I have a fairly good understanding of how I got into this mess. I have been able to fit all the jig saw pieces together and can see how I was drawn into an intense courtship and quick marriage to a man who 'mirrored' my own personality at the time. It was so easy to get lured in, trapped in a cycle of guilt and now, nearly 18 years later I'm a complete wreck of a woman. I still have doubts that I'm right about dh having NPD despite constantly going back over web sites and finding more and more examples that describe my life and his behaviour! My GP has organised an appointment to a psychiatrist. I need to discuss real examples of my real life to know I'm not imagining all this - that it's not just in my head.

I would dearly love to return to the UK with my children, but dh would never permit that, and I'd be in the wrong for removing them from their Dads country. I'm renting and pay all the rent. I did think about moving, but the upheaval would be too great on my children, one of whom has special needs. I need to find a way of getting him to leave and find the strength to carry it through!
Until then I will continue to work on my own frame of mind, talk myself into a position where I can finally stand up for myself again, and try to detach myself the emotional and mental conrol that this man has had over me for so long.

If I've waffled and rambled then apologies - but it feels so good to be able to openly talk about this - helps remind me that I'm not the insane f*ck up that dh has made me out to be over the years!

[gettingagrip]

Just keep posting! There are people here who understand exactly what you are going through.

These freaks send you insane with their carry-on. I have recently found some evidence that shows the genetic and physical markers for these PDs.

You are more than likely suffering from PTSD. You know, of course, that getting him to leave is going to be very difficult.

I sometimes wake up in the morning hoping that my entire 51 years of life have been a bad dream, and that all my family and previous partners have not been narcs....I must have been mistaken......then I ring my mother and have an insane conversation...or I have to have contact with my children's father and I end up feeling like murdering someone again.

THe psychopath forums that I linked to above are absolutely brilliant . You will find people ...survivors...on there who you will see have been there and got the t-shirt.

Keep posting...there are some of us who have been there.

xxxxx

[Unlikelyamazonian]

I agree with GG it's going to be very hrd to get him to leave. You might have to resort to a big fat lie. Just for once in your life. It could save your life after all. Dial the emergency services and say he has threatened you with a knife and could police come and remove him from the property. Then again, perhaps where you are police don't get involved in domestic abuse.

You are not dealing with a normal man if he has NDP. They are a bloody nightmare and they lie and lie and lie. They seems very sane and nice to outsiders. They make out that you are the nutcase. You need to get the Dcs away from him because when they are old enough to stand up for themselves and are no longer just sources of narcissistic supply for him, he will end up abusing them too. It may already have started.

You can do this: you sound a very intelligent woman in a good job. They like intelligent woman who are attractive kind and in good jobs - women like us - because we reflect their own self-image back at them and of course we look good on their arm - we are trophies. But they loathe us deep down. They loathe themselves more!

Do think carefully about a plan: (before you do the police thing or even if you don't) How much money can you get together, do you have your passports and the DCs passports somewhere hidden and safe, do you have joint accounts or savings that he could raid, if so what can you do about that, and do you have a network of support to lean on when the shit hits? I don't mean your family...they will possibly blame you and think you're being overly dramatic. I mean a best friend/s?

Tell people what you are going to do. That the marriage is over. Start telling people. Make it real for yourself. Help to make it happen - because I know that feeling of thinking you are mad and no longer yourself and can't make decisions etc. These bastards bring utter emotional chaos to their prey.

Keep posting. Keep telling yourself you are going to get this over with. You will.

[therealme]

I have a Q;
Since I stood up to dh a few weeks ago and showed no repentence for delivering his (2nd!) breakfast in bed 10 minutes late, we have been living at a 'stand off'. By that I mean he has told me he wants nothing from me and I am to do nothing for him. He has taken care of his own domestic arrangements - food, laundry, etc, and apart from one attempt to have sex with me 'as my last chance' which i refused, hasn't come near me (I am relagated to the couch these days)

Does this mean he has abandoned me as a source of narcissistic supply? Is he now going to look elsewhere for a new source? Or is it all part of a manipulation to 'isolate' me in order to punish me for my bad behaviour? In previous times I would have cracked by now and given in to the demand for sex - and thus the cycle would start again. Do you think he is aware that I have broken this cycle? Or is he oblivious to the change in my behaviour, doesn't give a shite and has move on?

My plans to seperate myself from this man are ongoing. I am seeing somebody for legal advice tomorrow. Another Q; when I tell him I am leaving/he is leaving, will he cut me and the kids dead, or can I expect a battle for custordy because the children 'belong' to him?

Sorry - it's very late, I don't sleep much, my mind is ever wakeful these days.

[imbored]

hi, im sorry to hear you are going through this[hugs], i know how you feel, i was lucky i had no children with my ex, i think you should call womens aid if you can if they have it where you are, and dissapear.
this is my house, so it was a bit easier for me, but i also found a mental health card when he was gone so it proves he was never right in the head, and i'm moving soon so he can never contact me again.
don't really know what else to say, but you need to leave this man,there is light at the end of the tunnel, and i wish you all the best.
good luck x

[Unlikelyamazonian]

I know the whole not sleeping thing my love. Keep going. You are going to come through this eventually.

To answer your questions, if he realises you have 'sussed' him so to speak and are now not buckling in the face of pressure then, if he does have PND, it is likely that yes he will start cutting you off or devaluing you - you are not longer a a source of supply to him as you rightly say. He will eventually discard you and begin looking for another supply. It can be a quick process and very very cruel and debilitating for his victim but remember, these people do not feel 'real' feelings. It is not a reflection on YOU.

In a way, he is not punishing you or isolating you etc - because for him, despite what he may say, this is not about you. It is about HIM. They live only for themselves. He
will not know how to deal with you as he cannot do real feelings, so he is just looking after himself now. By doing everything for himself. He would like sex still because sex is functional for him - not meaningful. He would still be up for sex and even more sorry for himself when you say no. It is complex. He will probably be feeling very self-pitying inside..it will all be your fault of course and he will re-write history in a flash. You will become the bonkers one in his book. Just plough on with it. These people cause chaos and misery.

It would be best to move right away from him with the DCs. Could you do that? Do you have family/friends in another part of the country? I know it sounds drastic but you will recover better if you are not living in the same area after you split.

Also, yes, some people with PND love the drama of court action and custody battles and he may try going for custody yes. It might depend on the DCs ages - if they are still quite young and are also sources of supply for him(they adore their daddy kind of thing) he may still want them. If they are older and developing characters and wills of their own - ie start taking issue with him and not being so adoring and in his thrall, then he will quite likely discard them too. He will be a crap father as they get older anyway...Your solicitor will give you advice about where you stand on the custody issue. Do not be afraid of him though. Rage back is what many websites advise. Does he rage? Mine did total silence instead and drove me to rage and anger. Remember, they are all different - the disorder has a spectrum and there will be other PDs overlapping in his make-up, not just NPD though NPD can be the overriding one iyswim.

In my Xh's case, he devalued and finally discarded me and the baby (6 months - unable to be much of a supply to him!) very quickly, went on to have masses of sex immediately and within 8 weeks had moved in with a new girlfriend. He has begun the cycle again - of being adoring, impressing her, meeting her family, making new friends, cooking fab meals..they are living in a big posh house (ony the best for an NPDer) and so on and so on. Poor girl.

I strongly advise you to make your plan carefully before you leave him. It sounds like you are doing this. Do YOU have to leave? Is the house in joint names? You and the children need somewhere to live..you should stay in the house if possible and he should go. You need to make sure you are as financially secure as possible before splitting, as it's possible he will trash you completely, with no remorse, taking anything he can money-wise before, and probably after the split once he knows it's coming.

Remember too they are very good at playing the charming, persuasive character with legal people (just as he did with you and will with new victims. To start with) Get into as little conversation/wrangling with him as possible. Let solicitor deal with him. Gettingagrip will have good advice about this.

Hugs. I am following your thread with great interest. I never thought I would get over his treatment of me and our son, but I am slowly recovering and my life is mostly great now - I am back to my old self. You will get there too.

[emeraldgirl1]

Hi - I don't know if I have very much to add of much use as I don't have a DH with narcissistic personality disorder, but my mother shows very strong elements of this PD and all I can offer you is the support to say you are doing the right thing by standing up for yourself and more importantly your kids. If only my father had just once refused to accept the mind-twisting of my mother, the endless hysteria, the bullying, the self-centred judgementalism, then I think I maybe wouldn't have had all the terrible problems I did in my late teens and early 20. My therapist now cannot believe the cowardice of a man who was supposed to be taking care of his kids but ALL HIS LIFE put his own self-preservation first. So I have only the utmost respect for someone who can challenge their partner when they have this PD.

You are doing the right thing a thousand-fold by refusing to engage with this crap anymore, and more importantly the right thing for you children. Brave old you. Well done and keep going, you can do it. It is so important for this insidious nasty destructive disease to be brought into the open, narcissists seem to thrive on living the 'perfect' life. I still am my only family member to even recognise that my mother is not just a charming neurotic but that her actions are deeply damaging and unpleasant and wreak emotional havoc.
xx

[Digitalis]

Hello Therealme

So sorry to hear what you are going through. I left my NPD husband four months ago. He was my only relationship and we'd been together since teenagers, although there were signs that he was unstable early on, it was really only when he hit his 40's and life wasn't going so well for him that the mask truly came off.

He built a fantasy world for himself where in his head he he was a highly successful businessman. But when the illusion started to collapse and he didn't make money, couldn't sell things, he looked around for others to blame.

He was jealous and possessive, resented any life I had outside the home and eventualy he persuaded me to refer to a therapist because he believed I had a personality disorder and suffered with severe stress which was destroying our relationship.

The therapist was a life saver, we saw her together for a year and she helped me to understand that I migth have been stressed but the reasons lay in my home life which I believed was totally normal. On a daily basis I and our teenaged son were critiscised, blamed for anything going wrong, told we were not normal - but in such a way that we were grateful for his words. Just like you we were verbally and emotionally abused, like Unlikely and Getting a Grip I'd been conditioned by a strange upbringing with a father who had sudden violent rages and a co-dependent mother who I could never quite be good enough for.

Once the realisation came of course I began to resist ExN and then the abuse escalated until he hit me. I told him I wanted to leave and he tried every trick in the book to keep me there. He tried self-harm, threatened suicide, got youngest child to plead with me to stay.

Eventually with the help of Women's Aid, I released the only way was to leave whilst he was out for the day. My parents agreed to have me to stay with children and pets for two weeks. Over the next 6 months I gradually moved out all the documents, jewellery, photographs that I wanted to keep and secretly rented a house a few miles away. I couldn't move completely away as I needed to keep my very good job to support myself financially.

Women's Aid warned me that ExN would be violent and I had the Domestic Violence Unit on red alert, my employer informed etc. etc.

Being an N he didn't react at all as I'd guessed. His verbal rage was terrible, I went back to our house with my father and I called Ex's brother to be there, I felt I at least needed to tell him why I'd left (due to his abuse of me and son).

He sent me an e-mail begging me to come back on Day 2 after I'd left, 2 weeks later he was on dating websites 24/7. 2 weeks after that he'd met several women from the dating website and "picked" the one he wanted. This new woman is a high-flying career woman with 2 broken marriages behind her. She's quite wealthy and very attractive -but probably quite vulnerable. They are now talking 4 months later about moving in together, her wealthy parents giving him a business to run. I feel so sorry for her, she's fallen for an illusion.

As UA has said, every N is different. I beleive mine is a "fragile Narcissist". He's a total charmer, a hypochondriac with big puppy dog eyes and truly terrible tales of his childhood and awful bad luck things that happen to him which are so not his fault. He appeals to a gullible type of woman who wants to rescue and love him better and will look the other way when the mask slips off.

As for me, now he has a new woman and her new family, I've been discarded (even though I left his behaviour had been so abusive I believe it was his way of devaluing and discarding) and I'm more or less free. My teenage son who was so badly affected he attempted suicide himself is blossoming and so much happier now we've left. It's funny how he could see through ExN months ago when I was still completely brainwashed.

Anyway, Therealme, I hope my story has helped a little. It was very therapeutic writing it down! Both UA and Getting A Grip gave me hugely valuable advice just before I left (I had a different screen name) and they really know what they are talking about.

I would say in your circumstances you would definitely have to "do a moonlight flit" as your N doesn't sound as if he will let you go and certainly not the DC's. You will need a lot of support and some money too if you can get it or save some up.

I think the worst and saddest thing for me has been the knowledge that as I've only ever had this one proper relationship, I've never really been loved by someone who's capable of loving and that's hard to come to terms with. Plus I'm so emotionally damaged I can't see myself ever trusting a man again to experience the real thing.

On the positive side, I've survived and I have my two wonderful children and I think they might just get through this without being psychologically damaged with all the love and support I can give them.

Sorry this has turned into a very long post and hope it helps. Keep posting for support if you need it and wishing you all the luck in the world.

[therealme]

Digitalis, I was so moved by your story. You come across as such a dignified lady, I hope I can one day speak in such a calm and articulate manner to somebody else in my position. It makes me feel so less stupid and gulliable to know that other intelligent women out there have been through this and survived. I still can't believe that I ended up in this situation; I was an independent young woman living a full and vibrant life in London, a graduate with a promising career ahead of me once. I don't recognise myself now, I feel like i've been in a coma for years and years. Ah! I'm 42, still young enough to piece together some quality of life I hope!

Tonight I went to a free legal advice clinic to learn what my options are regarding getting h out of the house. Before I went in he rang me to find out where I was and I was told if I didn't get home before him there'd be consequences! As a result I went in flustered and preoccupied, but never the less I stayed. It seems getting him to leave is a non starter as I would need a barring order, and to get a barring order I would need to have been physically abused. 2 decades of verbal, emotional and mental abuse are nothing compared to a black eye and a few broken ribs it seems..... So it looks very much like I will have to move myself and the dc out after all. The good news is that I am legally entitled to move back to the UK with my dc's so long as I do it above board and give him the option of applying to the courts to lodge a complaint. Unless I'm seriously doing damage to dc by removing them to the UK then he doesn't have a complaint. It's a very big light at the end of a very long tunnel for me; I have hope once again.

So tomorrow I start looking for a new place to live. My secret plans to escape continue and I'm ever moving forward to the day I can call my life my own!

[Unlikelyamazonian]

Digitalis I too am very sorry to hear that you have gone through the hell of living with these people. And I can exactly understand the feeling of failure and waste that you put up with your x's treatment for so long.

BUT, as you probably know, in the beginning, until the mask starts to slip, they reflect back at you the image of what you truly are - ie confident, intelligent, outgoing, independent, financially secure, good friends etc. They copy you as they want those things that you have and are forever striving for them (but never get them because they can't keep up the stage act forever and casually abuse people because they have no empathy, no real feelings and their 'friends' feel used in the end and give up on them) Can you take some comfort from that? That he saw the real you back then - and you can get that real you back, because she has never really gone away, she has just had the life force sucked out of her by these emotional vampires.

I know too what you mean when you say you could never trust a man again. I am there too right now...any men I meet I now look firstly for signs that they are acting and not 'real.'

But this I think is part of the recovery process...we have to have sharp instincts to make sure we don't fall for these people again. In our case it will be quite a long process because we (well I at least) have got myself involved with these types over and over. We need time to get out of the cycle.

Have you done the Women's Aid Pattern Changing course? I found it brilliant. You can self-refer, though sadly it does not operate everywhere in the country. I wish it did.

You have done so very well to get out and pick yourself up my love. I too was a high-flying, Uni-educated, high-earning London lass when I began getting entangled with the first of these freaks. Over the next ten years I had a termination by one, left another in the middle of the night he was so horrid, was bullied by another who was a pathological liar and gave me an STD, god it was all a bloody nightmare - and then I married one!

My mother is the one who has NPD in my family and my father was very co-dependent and still is. She raged and did disappearing acts and would be verbally vicious but then suddenly charming etc etc; my father still worships her.

I cut my ties with my family two and a half years ago and speak to them infrequently now - and even then only my father. He tries to put my mother on the phone and I now say No Thanks which still upsets him even though I have explained in black and white what I now think and feel. He just does not get it. The bystanders can't because if they did the entire edifice would collapse for them.

This is long too but hey, not many people I know of in RL have had first hand experience of someone with this very serious personality disorder. The (mostly) men who have it crush lives and screw up children psychologically and emotionally.

I am 45 now and since my H vanished on us 13 months ago I have read so much about NPD and understand so much more. It has given me amazing clarity and I only feel now that I am really start to live 'my' life, not the life my mother expected of me...or the life of misery and madness that I lived with H. My brain is fused but I am slowly getting better.

I am house-cleaning, skint, on benefits and a single parent. I give myself a break now though. I have survived a mauling by a string of bloody weird freaks, one of them very famous. I could do mucho damage to his career. But I want a quiet life now with my RL friends and just want to help others like you and therealme who have suffered so much at the hands of this mental illness.

Hugs

[gettingagrip]

Hello to you brave ladies.

I am now nearly three years down the line from leaving my ex-HN. Stupidly I went straight into a terrible relationship with the worst N I have ever met,......my ex-devil-N. He was so extreme, and was so exactly like my father that I started researching . This is when I came across these PDs.

The shock was huge.....but the relief was amazing. The madness of my whole life was explained.

I know what you mean about being sad that you have never really been loved....just used....that is very hard to come to terms with.

I have just spent the weekend with the only member of my extended family who is normal. Sadly his daughter has a PD.

One thing that does help to make you feel a little better about yourself is that these 'people' choose GOOD people to devalue and destroy. They recognise your goodness and they cannot bear it. They have to destroy you because you are a wonderful person.

The person they are at the begining, when they are in the idealisation phase, is YOU. They are reflecting you and your qualities back to you, because they have no goodness. They can see goodness but have no goodness in themselves.

The huge difficulty with these people is that they also have cognitive disfunction, so they have problems actually following a normal conversation. My mother in particular has this difficulty, and talking to her is like talking to a mad-woman.

Because they cannot understand context in conversation, they pick a word they recognise and talk about that...even though it has no meaning in the context of the conversation. When you know about this, you can spot it in every conversation you have with them.

Of course this gets worse when you have cottoned onto their sick games...as they are raging they lose all ability to think straight...and all sorts of terrible things come out of their mouths.

They are also pathological liars....so that makes dealing with them very tricky.

And there is also the fact that everything has to be about them. EVERYTHING.

Keep posting.....we do understand.

But ALWAYS REMEMBER.....

You can't out-psycho a psycho.

xxxxxxx

[Digitalis]

Therealme, that is great news - am so glad you have a chance to escape! But be really careful that your N does not see the hope in your eyes before he needs to. My advice would be to keep things as calm or as normal as you can at home.

Also be prepared for people to turn against you - that's really hard to bear.

My N used to watch me very carefully - he knew more about my moods and feelings than I did myself. All the better to manipulate me.

I just took the abuse and humoured him during the last months until the day I left.

Gettingagrip and UA, thanks for your very wise and reassuring words. You are both so brave and inspirational. It is impossible to talk to people in RL about PD's because public awareness is so low that you just end up looking bonkers. Apparently 10% of the population have these disorders but never do you hear it discussed in the media and so these people get away with it and leave us the victims viewed as crazy old cat women and that really annoys.

How about a journalistic article/campaign UA? Though I guess no-one really cares a monkeys apart from those who've been on the receiving end.

I love the positive way you portray the NPD victims GG - i'll remember that!

Keep posting therealme if you can do so safely as we'll all be wondering how you're getting on.

X

[therealme]

Hello,
I need another Q answered; I find I'm still on a learning curve in terms of predicting NPD behaviour, and I am no longer pouring over intenet sites but coming straight to your wealth of experience and knowledge here.

As I have mentioned, h has cut off all pretence of being in a relationship with me at present. He knows nothing about my behind the scenes activity to seperate from him or that I suspect the PD.
This morning he agreed to spend money given to me, but held onto by him, to fix my ailing car. Within minutes he then withdrew this agreement because I said something to piss him off. This is all 'normal' behavior for him - I'm not afected by it anymore.
However, this afternoon he gave me a gift of a watch, an expensive watch, that he knew I had been looking at.

My Q is why?
Why if he is no longer getting his demands met and has withdrawn all friendly communication from me would he do this?
Elaborate gifts have been produced in the past, I always thought it was because he loved me/was sorry. Now I know that this wasn't the case and they were probably sweeteners, and they always worked in the past to re-establish him back into the 'relationship'!
But why is he doing it again now when things have been so estranged for weeks? Could it be that he hasn't discarded me completely as his N-source?
Still confused about so much of this PD thing.

[Digitalis]

I'm still a bit of an amateur at predicting NPD behaviour too therealme. UA and GG have more experience and hopefully will answer you but here's my two peeny worth anyway!

My NPD would also do this - the last thing he bought me was a flashy sports car (with my money) which was lovely but not suitable for our country dog/mud lifestyle that we had at the time.

My take on this was that he did it firstly to make him feel good and to say "look what I bought the wife" to his adoring toxic family.

Secondly, N viewed me and the children as extensions of him, not as individuals in our own rights. We were to behave as he wanted us to, to wear appropriate clothing and to drive the right cars, live in a nice house/ area, socialise with the best people etc. He was very imagey and all of this mattered hugely to him as he had created in his mind a false lifestyle. He barely worked in the last 8 years actually claiming incapacity benefit but in his head he ran "businesses" from home.

Does this ring any bells for you?

I wold also imagine that he might be entering the "hearts and flowers" part of the abuse cycle. Giving gifts to try to win favour, after all N's don't want to do the work when there's someone else around to use to do it for them. He will also be desperate for narcissistic supply if you have been estranged for a few days so a gift may be the way to win this from you and from the bystanders.

It also makes them feel good to give gifts, especially if others see it. It will be all about him.

Hope this helps and I'm sure someone else may be along soon to shed some light. Look after yourself.

[gettingagrip]

therealme....from studying all the narcs in my life for a few years now I have come to realise that the cognitive impairment from which they suffer plays a huge part in their behaviour.

When you combine this with the fact that it is All About Them, the whole thing begins to fit together.

The sudden and abrupt change of an agreement is common, and is a way to control you of course. My N-mother and my ex-HN both do this all the time.

The extravagant gifts or promises are as you so rightly identify, sweeteners to say 'look how wonderful I am...I give you these amazing presents so you should be grateful'. Most Ns,however, are terrible mean gift givers, as has been my experience. Or they promise a gift and nothing materialises.

You say you have been estranged for the last weeks, but this is YOUR perception. His head is so full of himself that he may not have noticed that you have changed. It will take a huge change for him to notice anything...something along the lines of you actually leaving before he will compute that this time you really mean it. They cannot do subtlety...their brains are not equipped to even understand what a 'relationship' is.

They are experts at reflecting back to you what they THINK a relationship looks like, but they are not IN a relationship. The only relationship they can ever be in is with themselves.

As long as you are still actually physically THERE, you are a N-supply. It matters not whether that supply is good or bad supply, or that should be pleasant or unpleasant supply...it is still supply, and he will still feed off you and suck you dry.

If you comply with his demands you are supply...if you refuse his demands you are supply. It matters not to him. There is no difference.

As I said before...you can't out-psycho a psycho.

xxxx

[scribblefast]

Hi there realme. Digitalis and GG are both right. The gift-giving is very trying. My H bought me a wonderful necklace the xmas before he naffed off. It was expensive. He was VERY proud of the effort he went to in choosing and buying it etc.

I bought him a beautiful piece of pottery. Weirdly, I could see in his face that he thought nothing of it. I saw this for the first time and it made me confused because up til then he would have 'loved' it (though it would have been an act). He had already begun the devaluing process I now know though, (he disappeared a few months after xmas) and the mask was slipping.

Similarly he fucked up important birthdays or anniversaires. I would want something simple, he would agree then so something extravagant that i didn't want but i felt compelled to be grateful.

It is about control, it is about HIM and what HE would like to do for you. It means that he looks good to friends and family and when it all implodes these people will think you are making it up hen you say he was a shit.

They are just blasted weirdos and as I said before, all NPDers are different on the spectrum anyway. But this gift giving nonsense is clearly a common marker.

Continue to bluff him. Make your plan.Keep it VERY secret from him. Don't blurt anything out in a row with him. They really are very stupid people...precisely because they don't understand real emotions and think only of themselves, exist only for themselves.

They are often very intelligent of course but as GG says they are cognitively impaired and are only pretending at a relationship.

Out of interest, is he good in bed? My h was good at sex - though I now know that of course he used this as a way of securing supply for himself. He had taught himself a lot about sex and 'loving' and 'what a woman wanted' just as he had taught himself a lot about other topics to impress sources of supply - eg ancient battles, geography, wars, science, the history of London, England's churches and cathedrals, a whole load of useless facts which he soaked up like a sponge..all a means of impressing and getting supply. God they are weird.

I wanted to watch eastenders and he would pull a strop because University challenge was on the other side. Make catty comments during eastenders, make me feel a thicko etc. He knew fuck all about popular culture. He wasn't 'rounded'. He was a psychopath!

Probably haven't answered yr question but...just keep going. Keep quietly focussed. We are all here to hold your hand.

[Unlikelyamazonian]

Sorry forgot to namechange back..was asking about toddler recipes on another thread.

[therealme]

Thank you all for your reassurances. I am slowly beginning to understand how his mind works; my own mind is working overtime these days trying to re adjust. I also have 17 years of memories and incidents that keep coming back to me that I now have to re think in terms of what was really going on as opposed to how I saw it at the time. It is both shocking and sometimes difficult for me to come to terms with the notion that most of my adult life has been spent dealing with a false reality. I truely felt that I was going mad at times. My relief that I'm not now is tinged with so many other emotions - it's hard to keep a lid on them at times.

Certainly one of the biggest eye openers has been learning that my physical relationship with h didn't mean what I thought it did. Despite the obvious disintergration of our 'relationship' over the years I still reassured myself that the fact we always had great sex was a sign that there was still a deep emotional connection there between us. I made allowances for certain tastes in sex that seemed to turn h on, wanted to please him, thought I was being open minded, thought that this was at least one part of our marriage that was working! Not the case though, was it?

I am becoming increasingly worried about my eldest ds who is nearly 11. He is beginning to develop a mind of his own, as he should be. He is saying no a lot more to his Dad and as a result is incurring disapproval and punishments that come with no empathy. I need to limit the damage while still living with h and worry that this will continue even after we have left. How can I explain things to him without damaging him further? This morning he had a months pocket money taken away because he didn't want to water the flowers - I sat and bit my tongue while screaming inside.

[Unlikelyamazonian]

It is very hard dealing with the influence of Ns on their children. Gettingagrip will come along soon and give more advice re your son. My boy is only 20 months and because his father ran away abroad he will never know him so I only have the problem of explaining to him one day.

If he was older however, knowing what I know about H now, I wouldn't want him to have any access to him at all. I don't know how I would achieve this: possibly by moving abroad. I have a feeling you are abroad aren't you?

If so, consider moving back to yr home country. You only need persuade a court that it is in your and your DCs best interests - ie you have a stronger support network there and will have more help as a single parent etc...

My H has two daughters by an ex partner. Over the seven years I knew him we saw them every other weekend and I had a strong bond with them. It looked as though H did too. They both adored daddy though the older one was beginning to develop a will of her own too. They were 10 and 12 when he left the country. He has utterly abandoned them too. Poor things. I have no contact with them sadly. Their mother's decision.

It just proves to me that he was never genuinely interested in his offspring. It was acting. Again. It was show...it was to create the false image of himself of being a caring father - in his case, I believe, so that he remained in favour with his father from whom he inherited a lot of money when he died.

Once his father had died he began to unravel: his father was the one he feared but needed to impress because he so often bailed him out financially. With him dead, H could let the mask slip and it did and he showed his true colours.

Does your H have elderly parents? Narcissm often gets worse when an authority figure like a parent dies. Just a thought.

So that's my opinion. I would try and find any excuse to get right away with the dcs. Because if he wants regular access you will still have to deal with him. It will be bloody awful as GG will testify I think.

I know people may think that is wrong - to separate a child from his/her father deliberately - but I am sorry, in the case of people with NPD they can cause mighty damage to their children.

If your H was a violent abuser of yr kids would people/society/you yourself still think it ok to allow him access to them after a split?

No.

It is very difficult with a personality disorder such as this though. Society doesn't know much about it and the law doesn't recognise it.

Hard for you. Sorry. But I would run for the hills and explain why to the DCs when they are old enough.

[VoodooOnABoat]

lots of love to you you strong fabulous woman XXXXXXXXX

[gettingagrip]

Please go to these forums for help with children and other issues.

This is a site in the US and the language is very frightening at first....but they tell it like it is, and they have all been where we have been.

I have two children in their teens. One is okay...the other who is a little younger I am worried about.

All you can do for them is to love them and be consistent in your behaviour to counteract the insanity from their N-parent. There is nothing else you can do.

My research has led me to believe that this is a hereditary genetic condition, which spares some members of a family but takes many others.

It has been suggested that it is a survival mechanism, which would ring true, as if you don't care about anyone but yourself then you are going to be the one who gets through when times are tough.

HTH

xxxxx

[tryingherbest]

Hi realme

Had a quick look through posts. Very much seems like you know the answer but you seem to be asking questions about his behaviour. You know the answers so you don't need to ask any more questions to understand him better.

If you need to come back to the UK you should also see advice in the UK - I don't know where you are. Are your kids UK nationals, do they have their own passports?

Do you have any support where you are?

You're doing remarkably well and do not tell him a thing

I find it worrying he has control over money that is yours. Very worrying that you seem to have to negotiate with him how he spends your money (ie the car issue).

Your love for your kids and your wish to see them happy and well adjusted will see you through your hardest moments.